Your parents are though... but obviously Israel is waiting for them to die so they can complete their "final solution". isn't that right Herr Goebbels? lol
Things that make flub/clown/danmandnottyboi/pecker smile
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Well in the case of the jews..it's didn't work out too well for the ones that decided to stay did it? ( I am talking about Nazi Germany here) so when you add that historical frame. Fleeing seems to be the safest course of action.My point to flub was that the situation was identical on both sides. Both groups faced both exhortations from their own leaders to flee their homes, and also faced real persecution from the other side. There is really no difference between the two sides with respect to these topics. They were all war refugees, on both sides.
For the record the Arab leaderships urging that Palestinians flee the area weren't isolated cases, but widespread policy. That's similar on the Jewish side too, although the motivations were quite different, the actions of the leaders on each side were pretty similar.
The Arab leaders insisted that Palestinians flee because they were worried that if any Palestinians stayed behind and accepted Jewish rule that this would legitimize Israel. Palestinians who consented to live in Israel and accept a Jewish government were back then viewed as treasonous. Turned out to be one of the biggest blunders of the century, but that is what they did.
Unless you're born of a migrant worker in Israel.You aren't a refugee in the country of your birth.
According to new rules in Israel, you won't become a citizen if you are born in Israel unless you are Jewish.
Except for one big difference.My point to flub was that the situation was identical on both sides. Both groups faced both exhortations from their own leaders to flee their homes, and also faced real persecution from the other side. There is really no difference between the two sides with respect to these topics. They were all war refugees, on both sides.
The Jews who left/were kicked out took over/were given land in Israel while the Palestinians who left/were kicked out were put in refugee camps because their homes were taken from them.
Yup exactly. I don't agree with you often, but you are SPOT ON in this case: The Arabs failed to give the Palestinians land, failed to integrate them, failed to treat them as proper refugees, treated them like animals. Exactly. You got it.Except for one big difference.
The Jews who left/were kicked out took over/were given land in Israel while the Palestinians who left/were kicked out were put in refugee camps because their homes were taken from them.
Paint yourself into a corner often flub?
You have in fact identified the problem EXACTLY: There was in fact no real difference in 1948 between the Jewish and Palestinian refugees. Each had been urged by their own leaders to flee. Each faced persecution. Each had their property and their homes stolen from them. The difference today, sixty odd years later, is precisely because Israel fully integrated its refugees, while the Arab states failed to do the same for the Palestinians.
The result today of this different treatment of refugees is that the children of Jewish refugees are now indistinguishable from the general Israeli population, living normal lives, just like everyone else while the children of Palestinian refugees, having been ill treated by their Arab captors for decades, still live in squalor, still are clearly identifiable as refugees, and still do not enjoy the same rights as others in the country of their birth.
Wrong. Israel is responsible for how these people were mistreated in 1948, and the Arab nations are responsible for how they've been mistreated for the 60 odd years since then.The result today is also that the Palestinian refugee is still Israel's problem, and not the Arab nations.
The Arab nations are also responsible for how they treated Jewish refugees in 1948.
As for the right of return, it should properly be understood as a right to return to the Palestinian state when it is finally set up. The Arab nations are not contemplating a right of return of the Jewish refugees to their original homes after all.
So where was all this land for the refugees supposed to come from. Canada is a HUGE country...do we give refugees land? WTF that is IDIOTIC. Of course we know where the land for jewish refugees came from (evicted Palis). Zionism is essentially Lebensraum.... of course the Arabs have an agenda, but so do the Israelis .Yup exactly. I don't agree with you often, but you are SPOT ON in this case: The Arabs failed to give the Palestinians land, failed to integrate them, failed to treat them as proper refugees, treated them like animals. Exactly. You got it.
Paint yourself into a corner often flub?
You have in fact identified the problem EXACTLY: There was in fact no real difference in 1948 between the Jewish and Palestinian refugees. Each had been urged by their own leaders to flee. Each faced persecution. Each had their property and their homes stolen from them. The difference today, sixty odd years later, is precisely because Israel fully integrated its refugees, while the Arab states failed to do the same for the Palestinians.
The result today of this different treatment of refugees is that the children of Jewish refugees are now indistinguishable from the general Israeli population, living normal lives, just like everyone else while the children of Palestinian refugees, having been ill treated by their Arab captors for decades, still live in squalor, still are clearly identifiable as refugees, and still do not enjoy the same rights as others in the country of their birth.
Funny how a group of people that still hunts Nazis 70 years later is so quick to forgive itself and deny responsibility.....lol. If you REALLY believe that, please explain why Israel STILL demands more money from Germany?Wrong. Israel is responsible for how these people were mistreated in 1948, and the Arab nations are responsible for how they've been mistreated for the 60 odd years since then.
The Arab nations are also responsible for how they treated Jewish refugees in 1948.
As for the right of return, it should properly be understood as a right to return to the Palestinian state when it is finally set up. The Arab nations are not contemplating a right of return of the Jewish refugees to their original homes after all.
I really wish you rah rah Israel types would take off your bigoted racist blockers and learn something once in awhile. With the exception of Lebanon, Palestinians in other Arab countries are given citizenship and treated like dirt like the rest of the local population, Syria, Egypt, Jordan are prime examples. The so called "refugee camps" just outside of Damascus in Syria actually have some of the best shopping as I have been told.
Now the sole exception is Lebanon which is a sectarian construct by the French, the vast majority of the Palestinian refugees there are Sunni Muslims and the Christians along with the Shia sure as hell dont want to give them citizenship and full employment rights, thereby tipping the sectarian balance in favour of the Sunnis in that tiny country.
Israel screwed itself in 1967 by annexing East Jerusalem, adding tens of thousands of Arabs under its control whose population continues to grow. They are trying oh so hard to get rid of these Arabs but the problem is short of forcing people out with guns a la some Arab villages in 48, they wont leave.
Now the sole exception is Lebanon which is a sectarian construct by the French, the vast majority of the Palestinian refugees there are Sunni Muslims and the Christians along with the Shia sure as hell dont want to give them citizenship and full employment rights, thereby tipping the sectarian balance in favour of the Sunnis in that tiny country.
Israel screwed itself in 1967 by annexing East Jerusalem, adding tens of thousands of Arabs under its control whose population continues to grow. They are trying oh so hard to get rid of these Arabs but the problem is short of forcing people out with guns a la some Arab villages in 48, they wont leave.
Only in your mind is that understood. The right to return is to return to the lands where they were evicted in 1948, not into some large prison camp controlled by Israel.As for the right of return, it should properly be understood as a right to return to the Palestinian state when it is finally set up. The Arab nations are not contemplating a right of return of the Jewish refugees to their original homes after all.
And as long as Israel guarantees free travel and citizenship to all who claim to be Jewish while excluding those who have rightful claim on the land, its going to be an issue.
Lets now talk a little about Plan Dalet, or Plan D.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
In 1947 Israel was built upon ethnic cleansing using the tactics from Plan D, which are still in practice today.
And this is a large reason why 80% of the native Palestinians were ethnically cleansed and why a great many of them and their descendants now live in refugee camps around Israel's borders.its purpose was to conquer as much of Palestine and to expel as many Palestinians as possible.[2]
How about the land stolen from the Jews? Apparently more land was stolen from Jews in the ethnic cleansing of Muslim countries post 1948 than the entire size of the State of Israel. (A lot of them had been farmers.)So where was all this land for the refugees supposed to come from.
You noted that land taken from evicted Palestinians was used in part for Jewish refugees, I think you must have forgotten that there were also evicted Jews--where's their land gone?
Nonsense. Explain to me why these special rules exist only for Palestinians and not for any other refugees anywhere on the planet from any other place or country? For example, why does it not apply to Jewish refugees who were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries? But really, why does it not apply to refugees anywhere from any conflict?Only in your mind is that understood. The right to return is to return to the lands where they were evicted in 1948, not into some large prison camp controlled by Israel.
When you start to look at that and ask questions about that the whole right of return thing starts to unravel and look ridiculous--at least as conceived by you.
First off, stop using the terms 'ethnically cleansed' in relation to Jews and Arab countries. Its not true. It was true in Germany, but not in the Arab countries. According to the wiki page we've both quoted from, a good number of said Israeli's don't even consider themselves refugee's, as Israel was actively courting immigration of Jews at the time. And since a good number don't even consider themselves refugees, arguing right of return for them them is moot.Nonsense. Explain to me why these special rules exist only for Palestinians and not for any other refugees anywhere on the planet from any other place or country? For example, why does it not apply to Jewish refugees who were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries? But really, why does it not apply to refugees anywhere from any conflict?
When you start to look at that and ask questions about that the whole right of return thing starts to unravel and look ridiculous--at least as conceived by you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_landsIraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: "I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee". Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations". And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."[90]
Meanwhile, the UN has released another chapter of the Goldstone report, and it suggests that both Israel and Hamas did not investigate themselves impartially. Now we'll see if Goldstone's recommendations of war crime charges to the ICC will happen.
Also, I see that some IDF soldiers have been charged with theft for stealing and selling laptops and cameras stolen from the flotilla. Is that part of the blockade? Or just plain piracy?
And Nethanyahu has declared he won't negotiate for peace with the 1967 borders, so yes, the two state solution should now be called officially dead. Apartheid, here it comes.
Except that the Pali refugees did not go into many of those countries... kinda inconvenient how these genocidal acts work...How about the land stolen from the Jews? Apparently more land was stolen from Jews in the ethnic cleansing of Muslim countries post 1948 than the entire size of the State of Israel. (A lot of them had been farmers.)
You noted that land taken from evicted Palestinians was used in part for Jewish refugees, I think you must have forgotten that there were also evicted Jews--where's their land gone?
Do you accept the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign state within the 1967 borders?First off, stop using the terms 'ethnically cleansed' in relation to Jews and Arab countries. Its not true. It was true in Germany, but not in the Arab countries. According to the wiki page we've both quoted from, a good number of said Israeli's don't even consider themselves refugee's, as Israel was actively courting immigration of Jews at the time. And since a good number don't even consider themselves refugees, arguing right of return for them them is moot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_lands
Meanwhile, the UN has released another chapter of the Goldstone report, and it suggests that both Israel and Hamas did not investigate themselves impartially. Now we'll see if Goldstone's recommendations of war crime charges to the ICC will happen.
Also, I see that some IDF soldiers have been charged with theft for stealing and selling laptops and cameras stolen from the flotilla. Is that part of the blockade? Or just plain piracy?
And Nethanyahu has declared he won't negotiate for peace with the 1967 borders, so yes, the two state solution should now be called officially dead. Apartheid, here it comes.
You might wish to invest in a dictionary. The way you toss words around as if they have some application to actual facts or events is quite pathetic.Except that the Pali refugees did not go into many of those countries... kinda inconvenient how these genocidal acts work...
Why bother asking this question anymore?Do you accept the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign state within the 1967 borders?
Even Netanyahu is now refusing to meet with any Palestians to negotiate peace based on the 1967 borders.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/18/netanyahu-rejects-direct-peace-talks-during-mitchell-visit/
The 1967 borders are dead.
Its apartheid full steam ahead.
In typical fashion you don't let facts get ion the way of your vitriol. You have misstated Netanyahu's comment. What he said in repose top a demand by Abbas that the negotiations be based on the 1967 borders is that:Why bother asking this question anymore?
Even Netanyahu is now refusing to meet with any Palestians to negotiate peace based on the 1967 borders.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/18/netanyahu-rejects-direct-peace-talks-during-mitchell-visit/
The 1967 borders are dead.
Its apartheid full steam ahead.
"Netanyahu repeated his demand for the renewal of direct talks without preconditions."
Rumors of the death of the two state solution may have been premature.
U.S.: Israel, Palestinians 'very close' to direct Mideast peace talks
From your/clown's favorite resource:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...-close-to-direct-mideast-peace-talks-1.309085
Why will you not simply answer what is a simple question.
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Not as pathetic as your attempts to justify and cover up ethnic cleansing and humanitarian crimes. I would say people like you are the same as holocaust deniers. Probably even worse since you know it happened once to your people and now you justify inflicting the same crimes on others. To me it is the ultimate act of racism.You might wish to invest in a dictionary. The way you toss words around as if they have some application to actual facts or events is quite pathetic.
