Where does Dion Phaneuf rank?

[splooge]

...as one of the top defencemen? He's 5th highest paid this coming season, but I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 defenceman, so where would he fit in between as for ranking?

is he better than:

Eric Brewer?
Keith Ballard?

on his own team, he is better than Beaucemin, but so was Kubina...

and if u take into consideration his age and only compare him to players within 3 years younger/older than him, then Duncan Keith is definitely better than Dion, but maybe he's only slightly better than Komisarek...

any insight?

I love the leafs, but not 1 current roster player is my idea of my 'ideal' leaf player for what is available in the NHL today!

 

[scouser1]

according to his peer as the most overrated, and I cant think of a better group of people to judge his talents.

http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/...eafs-phaneuf-voted-nhl-s-most-over-rated.aspx

 

[Silver-Stick]

...as one of the top defencemen? He's 5th highest paid this coming season, but I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 defenceman, so where would he fit in between as for ranking?

is he better than:

Eric Brewer?
Keith Ballard?

on his own team, he is better than Beaucemin, but so was Kubina...

and if u take into consideration his age and only compare him to players within 3 years younger/older than him, then Duncan Keith is definitely better than Dion, but maybe he's only slightly better than Komisarek...

any insight?

I love the leafs, but not 1 current roster player is my idea of my 'ideal' leaf player for what is available in the NHL today!

He is definetly better then Brewer and Ballard, and I would say he is close to a top 10 d-man in the nhl.

 

[Lapper]

He is definetly better then Brewer and Ballard, and I would say he is close to a top 10 d-man in the nhl.

close to top 10??? really???

he's not even close to being as good as any of the 8 d-men chosen for team canada, and that's only 1 country. there's also a lot of kids coming up i would take over phaneuf as well.

 

[dj1470]

I think Dion Phaneuf WILL be a top 10 defeceman within 5 years.
I too believe him to be overrated at this time.
It's only the Leaf hype machine that puts him out there as a top guy.
He's still somewhat young and playing on a crappy team for a few years he'll get lots of ice time and only get better.

 

[big.guy_13]

I was a Phaneuf fan in his junior and early Calgary days.

Now I feel he is overrated. Plus he's a Laff now, so I hope he continues to be overrated.

 

[Silver-Stick]

close to top 10??? really???

he's not even close to being as good as any of the 8 d-men chosen for team canada, and that's only 1 country. there's also a lot of kids coming up i would take over phaneuf as well.

Im not going to go into too much detail.... but it depends on how you are rating the defenseman.... I can easily make a case that I would rather build a franchise around Phaneuf rather then Pronger, Neidermyer and Boyle due to age and other factors....

Daughty and Keith are much better, but I also dont think Seabrook is head and shoulders above Phaneuf, but he had chemistry with Keith so it made him a good choice for that team.

Just my two cents....

 

[Tiffany_69]

Dion well time will tell. He best start stepping up his game and toughness. Went soft since Junior. Was a terror there. Leafs well they need him of course. Need a power forward and goalie too. IMO the Maple leafs will kill him there and his career Will slide wrong team for him.

 

[enyceman]

Where does he rank in our minds? or among his peers whom he plays against. Apparently they think hes the most overrated player, and i would think NHL players would know better than us...

 

[wazup]

according to his peer as the most overrated, and I cant think of a better group of people to judge his talents.

http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/...eafs-phaneuf-voted-nhl-s-most-over-rated.aspx

That would sting since it's coming from other players, one thing for a writer to say it, but from other players, ouch. It all depends on this year with him. He's has a fresh start, is in the prime of his career, and is now the captain, he has to bring it this year

 

[C Dick]

Where does he rank in our minds? or among his peers whom he plays against. Apparently they think hes the most overrated player, and i would think NHL players would know better than us...

NHL players are good at hockey, not neccessarily thinking. Just because you are big and strong and can skate fast does not mean you can neccessarily analyze anything. The other flaw of a poll like that is that being voted overrated is an insult, so you vote for people you don't like. But isn't it a compliment if your opponents don't like you?

To me, a better measure would be if all the players were free agents, and there was an auction of them all. Whoever ended up getting the biggest pay cut would be the most overrated.

 

[Ironhead]

Where does Dion Phaneuf rank? ...as one of the top defencemen?

It is July ... what does it matter.
That said ... if he just plays within his game he will be fine.

 

[wazup]

NHL players are good at hockey, not neccessarily thinking. Just because you are big and strong and can skate fast does not mean you can neccessarily analyze anything. The other flaw of a poll like that is that being voted overrated is an insult, so you vote for people you don't like. But isn't it a compliment if your opponents don't like you?

To me, a better measure would be if all the players were free agents, and there was an auction of them all. Whoever ended up getting the biggest pay cut would be the most overrated.

huh?? Go to bed, sleep off whatever you're on and repost in the morning, we'll give you a mulligan on this one.

 

[splooge]

everyone says time will tell, yet he is not exactly young anymore for the NHL...

 

[C Dick]

huh?? Go to bed, sleep off whatever you're on and repost in the morning, we'll give you a mulligan on this one.

Instead of insults, you could try to refute my points. What are you, a hockey player (no homo)?

I stand by what I said. People put a lot of stock in player polls, but players are not particularly good at analysis, they are good at hockey. I would consider a poll of general managers or sports writers much more likely to make sense. Saying that playing hockey makes you good at analyzing hockey is like saying that you want your brain surgeon to be a guy who had brain surgery himself, rather than a guy who is a brain surgeon.

 

[The Oracle]

I stand by what I said. People put a lot of stock in player polls, but players are not particularly good at analysis, they are good at hockey. I would consider a poll of general managers or sports writers much more likely to make sense. Saying that playing hockey makes you good at analyzing hockey is like saying that you want your brain surgeon to be a guy who had brain surgery himself, rather than a guy who is a brain surgeon.

I have to disagree with your comments.

I remember Chris Schultz arguing with Bob McCown on the fan about something football related and McCown implied that Schultz's view point was skewed because he was a former player.

Too which Schultz shot back that as a non player Bob would always be looking from the outside in whereas a player was looking from the inside out.

Only if you have played do you truly understand the game and its complex nature both physical and mental.

So in this case I believe players are in the best position to rate their peers.

 

[C Dick]

I have to disagree with your comments.
Only if you have played do you truly understand the game and its complex nature both physical and mental.
So in this case I believe players are in the best position to rate their peers.

I am not convinced so far. So do you indeed then believe that the best brain surgeon is the guy who had brain surgery? The challenge in this case is to analyze hockey players and rate them. Clearly, having played in the NHL and experienced it first hand would provide you with unique insights that others would not have. But the activity is still one of analyzing data, not of playing hockey. The average NHL player has average analytical skills, and first hand experience. The average GM or sports journalist presumably would have less experience, but better analytical skills (or else why would he have the job? Perhaps because he was a former player?).

So which is more important, the analytical skills, or the experience? To me, since the challenge is one of analysis, not athletics, the analytical skills would be more important, thought the experience would still matter. If you took the top twenty players, based on their analytical skills, that might provide the best of both.

 

[The Oracle]

I am not convinced so far. So do you indeed then believe that the best brain surgeon is the guy who had brain surgery? The challenge in this case is to analyze hockey players and rate them. Clearly, having played in the NHL and experienced it first hand would provide you with unique insights that others would not have. But the activity is still one of analyzing data, not of playing hockey. The average NHL player has average analytical skills, and first hand experience. The average GM or sports journalist presumably would have less experience, but better analytical skills (or else why would he have the job? Perhaps because he was a former player?).

So which is more important, the analytical skills, or the experience? To me, since the challenge is one of analysis, not athletics, the analytical skills would be more important, thought the experience would still matter. If you took the top twenty players, based on their analytical skills, that might provide the best of both.

I'm not sure where you are going with the brain surgeon comparison but in the interests of debate here goes.

If I want to know who the best brain surgeon is then I am going to seek the opinion of other brain surgeons.

I'm not going too seek out the advice of some administator or academic who has never been in an operating room.

As for rating hockey players, ever notice how the top analysts in the broadcast booths are mostly all former players on some level.

Pierre McGuire, Darren Pang, Barry Melrose, Grapes, PJ stock, Mattew Barnaby etc.

Experience actually playing the game is invaluable and cannot be taught or absorbed from watching.

You can have all the analytical skills in the world but without game experience your useless.

Put simply if a players poll indicated that Dion was the most over rated then I would put a lot of weight behind that.



For they are the only ones with hands on experience.

 

[big dogie]

So I guess your opinion dosn't count as you have never played in the NHL?

b d

I'm not sure where you are going with the brain surgeon comparison but in the interests of debate here goes.

If I want to know who the best brain surgeon is then I am going to seek the opinion of other brain surgeons.

I'm not going too seek out the advice of some administator or academic who has never been in an operating room.

As for rating hockey players, ever notice how the top analysts in the broadcast booths are mostly all former players on some level.

Pierre McGuire, Darren Pang, Barry Melrose, Grapes, PJ stock, Mattew Barnaby etc.

Experience actually playing the game is invaluable and cannot be taught or absorbed from watching.

You can have all the analytical skills in the world but without game experience your useless.

Put simply if a players poll indicated that Dion was the most over rated then I would put a lot of weight behind that.



For they are the only ones with hands on experience.

 

[The Oracle]

So I guess your opinion dosn't count as you have never played in the NHL?

b d

Since I'm only a fan, yes my opinion would have less merit than a qualified analyst.

Smart ass!