Driving scenario - is this safe/legal?

[mmouse]

Say you're driving in the left lane of a 2 lane road (4 lanes total). Someone pulls out of a side street into the right lane. They do this at distance that, if you were in the right lane, you would certainly rear end them.

Seems to me this is a very dangerous move. As the first driver, I could change lanes any time. Whose fault would it be if an accident occurs in this scenario?

 

[red]

They do this at distance that, if you were in the right lane, you would certainly rear end them.

?

based on this - I think its a dangerous move. not sure who would be found at fault though.

 

[Another_Mod]

The person driving on the road has the right of way , the person entering the roadway must yield to traffic on the roadway.
If you intentionally change lanes to hit someone, and there are witnesses, I would think the person lane changing would be at fault, not the person entering the roadway.

 

[Malibook]

It's possible that both drivers are at fault for not looking beyond the lane they want to move into.
The degree would depend on the point of impact.
If the car pulls out and gets rear ended by the car changing lanes, I would say the car changing lanes should have been able to avoid the collision, and did he even signal?
If the car pulling out hits the side of the car that just changed lanes, then the car pulling out should have been able to avoid the collision.

 

[slademan]

Why would you want to change lanes at an intersection where a car was about to make a right hand turn. Pick a lane and stay in it. When you see a car making a right from a side street, he wants to turn on that road, thats why he is there. Don't change lanes when you see there could be a potential problem. It's called safe and defensive driving. who cares if it's legal or illegal. No one wants to get in an accident, always keep your eye on the other assholes because you never know what there going to do. Besides how would you like to be stuck behind a car that won't make a right hand turn when the right lane is completly empty because there are cars in the left lane..They sit there and wait and wait and wait while I'm yelling GOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[mmouse]

Don't change lanes when you see there could be a potential problem. It's called safe and defensive driving.

Besides how would you like to be stuck behind a car that won't make a right hand turn when the right lane is completly empty because there are cars in the left lane..They sit there and wait and wait and wait while I'm yelling GOOOOOOOOOOO.

You're contradicting yourself. Yes, safe and defensive driving would be not to change lanes near an intersection. It would also be to wait until the rightmost and next lanes are clear before turning out from a side road. If you yelled at me for waiting, you'd be a dick.

 

[basketcase]

Making a turn, a car is required to go in to the first available lane. If he(?) could do that safely with you in the other lane, I don't see a problem. As for changing lanes, (hopefully) you signal early enough that the turning driver would (hopefully) see that and (hopefully) wait to turn.


Another question. We can make right hand turns on red. Can you make a left hand turn from a one way street (say going West) on to another one way street (going south) on a red?

 

[Cassini]

Can you make a left hand turn from a one way street (say going West) on to another one way street (going south) on a red?

Yes.

 

[fmahovalich]

If you were in the left lane..and someone turned into the right lane all would be good.


If you decided to change lanes as he made a right and you hit him..YOU would be at fault.

It is an offence to change lanes within a certain distance of an intersection.


SO..if your in the left..approaching an intersection...you are obliged to STAY left!

 

[rhuarc29]

Say you're driving in the left lane of a 2 lane road (4 lanes total). Someone pulls out of a side street into the right lane. They do this at distance that, if you were in the right lane, you would certainly rear end them.

Seems to me this is a very dangerous move. As the first driver, I could change lanes any time. Whose fault would it be if an accident occurs in this scenario?

Personally, I wouldn't switch lanes when a driver is looking like he's going to pull out and I wouldn't pull out when there's a car coming in either lane, so I'll never be in a bad situation. That said, I saw a similar situation where someone switched lanes through an intersection and someone made a right turn in front of him. In my opinion, changing lanes through an intersection is a bonehead move anyway and I'd be inclined to believe both parties were found liable (but not sure).

Actual collisions are rare for these cases because most of the time the guy already on the road signals so the guy waiting knows not to pull out. It's the people who don't signal who cause dangerous situations to become critical.

 

[Aardvark154]

If you were in the left lane..and someone turned into the right lane all would be good.


If you decided to change lanes as he made a right and you hit him..YOU would be at fault.

It is an offence to change lanes within a certain distance of an intersection.


SO..if your in the left..approaching an intersection...you are obliged to STAY left!

Although I do not know about Ontario specifically, in most places in North America - spot on.

 

[mmouse]

If you were in the left lane..and someone turned into the right lane all would be good.


If you decided to change lanes as he made a right and you hit him..YOU would be at fault.

It is an offence to change lanes within a certain distance of an intersection.


SO..if your in the left..approaching an intersection...you are obliged to STAY left!

Thanks - exactly what I wanted to know! Still, I wouldn't pull out into a road unless the nearside AND the adjacent lanes are clear.

 

[Lagavulin2]

Part of the the secret laws on Ontario know only to members of THE Lodge .......MUUUAHHHHHH !!!!

o.k., the serious answer

In Ontario there is a set of Regulations under the Insurance Act called Fault Determination Rules

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900668_e.htm

The situation you described could be 7(3)

(3) If the incident occurs when automobile “B” is entering a road from a private road or a driveway and automobile “A” is passing the private road or driveway and, if there are no traffic signals or signs, the driver of automobile “A” is not at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident.

But it could also be a 10(4) if you are changing lanes

Quick call Fuji and start a debate.

 

[Mineshaft]

Say you're driving in the left lane of a 2 lane road (4 lanes total). Someone pulls out of a side street into the right lane. They do this at distance that, if you were in the right lane, you would certainly rear end them.

Seems to me this is a very dangerous move. As the first driver, I could change lanes any time. Whose fault would it be if an accident occurs in this scenario?

You should not be driving in the left lane unless you are passing a slower moving vehicle or you intend to shortly make a left turn. Therefore, the driver in the left lane is at fault before the other driver even enters this scenario.

 

[Aardvark154]

Part of the the secret laws on Ontario know only to members of THE Lodge .......MUUUAHHHHHH !!!!

o.k., the serious answer

In Ontario there is a set of Regulations under the Insurance Act called Fault Determination Rules

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900668_e.htm

The situation you described could be 7(3)

(3) If the incident occurs when automobile “B” is entering a road from a private road or a driveway and automobile “A” is passing the private road or driveway and, if there are no traffic signals or signs, the driver of automobile “A” is not at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident.

Lagavulin in Ontario, is "B" still entirely liable if the roadway is a four lane roadway (two lanes in each direction) "A" is in the left (passing lane) and "B" pulls out from a side road into the travel lane and does not enter the passing lane?

(So that "A" is to the left of the dashed line, because the diagram only shows the portion of the roadway which has traffic moving from left to right).

 

[Aardvark154]

You should not be driving in the left lane unless you are passing a slower moving vehicle or you intend to shortly make a left turn. Therefore, the driver in the left lane is at fault before the other driver even enters this scenario.

But let us say that "A" sees "B" looking to made a right hand turn and moves over to the passing lane. It happens all the time, and I've done it myself.

 

[Mineshaft]

But let us say that "A" sees "B" looking to made a right hand turn and moves over to the passing lane. It happens all the time, and I've done it myself.

Nothing wrong with that as it's a viable reason to change lanes, but then you should be moving back to the right lane again once it's safe to do so.

I see too many people using the passing lane for no good reason while driving under the speed limit and basically forcing other drivers to pass them on the right side. Of course, maybe that's because I live in the K-W area where the worst drivers apparently reside according to some study I once read somewhere (sorry, no link).

 

[randygirl]

It is an offence to change lanes within a certain distance of an intersection.

!

I believe it is entirely legal to change lanes, even within an intersection, if it is safe to do so. There are no 'distances' that must be observed. My driving instructor was a retired OPP officer, that is who I heard that from.

He also told me that the yellow line down the highway is a suggestion, and it is entirely legal to pass on solid lines if it is safe to do so. I didn't believe him when he told me that last tidbit, and asked other officers I ran into (not literally!), and they confirmed this, as well.

 

[rhuarc29]

I believe it is entirely legal to change lanes, even within an intersection, if it is safe to do so. There are no 'distances' that must be observed. My driving instructor was a retired OPP officer, that is who I heard that from.

He also told me that the yellow line down the highway is a suggestion, and it is entirely legal to pass on solid lines if it is safe to do so. I didn't believe him when he told me that last tidbit, and asked other officers I ran into (not literally!), and they confirmed this, as well.

All true, but I wouldn't recommend passing on a solid yellow line when an officer is around. Even if you don't cause an accident, or better yet even if there's only you, the guy you're passing and the cop on the road, and you never exceed the speed limit, the police officer can still pull you over for driving dangerously. Most solid lines are there for a reason (ie hill, corner, etc.).

 

[oldjones]

Assuming each driver could see the other vehicle: The driver entering the road is required to keep clear of traffic on the roadway and enter the nearest lane. He checks: no traffic coming in that lane, so he turns into it. The driver on the road in the left lane, if she were to continue onwards in it, has nothing to do with anything, no problem. But having decided to move to the curb lane when she can see a car about to enter it, she should know she'll become a hazard if she doesn't signal before making the lane change. That's the only way the entering driver will know he won't have that entry lane to himself. And if she signals after he's started his turn, she's waited too late.

If the cars are close enough for the collision, then the only way to avoid one is not to make unexpected moves. The guy signalling his right turn and moving into the right lane is doing exactly as expected; the person signalling a lane change, then making it is also. But an unsignalled lane change puts you at fault.