don't get jaded by emotions. criminals should be dealt with accordingly. they need to know there are consequences for their actions. if people who most likely do crime knows there soft pillows waiting in the inside. they won't have fear of going to jail.
Time: Norway Builds the World's Most Humane, luxurious Prison
- Thread starter alexmst
- Start date
Questions
1. Is there anyone here that has ever worked as a C.O. in the Provincial or Federal system of Canada?
2. Is there anyone here that has ever done time in a Provincial or Federal system of Canada?
1. Is there anyone here that has ever worked as a C.O. in the Provincial or Federal system of Canada?
2. Is there anyone here that has ever done time in a Provincial or Federal system of Canada?
Randy G: not only do they pay you to GO to school, but they pay the tuition too I believe. I saw on 60 minutes (love that show) where there were 10 students, all in their 30's who were working on their second bachelor's degree.....
As for criminals created by the penal system. That may be true and I agree that as a con, it is hard to go "straight" with a record but the thing one has to remember is: the system didn't create the criminal. In most cases it isn't a petty first offence that gets jail time, there are a LOT of stages one has to go through before they see the inside of a prison.
I mean hell, a couple of summers ago there was that guy in the paper who had been convicted of what, 88 federal offences by the time he was 21 and had yet to spend any time in prison?
As for criminals created by the penal system. That may be true and I agree that as a con, it is hard to go "straight" with a record but the thing one has to remember is: the system didn't create the criminal. In most cases it isn't a petty first offence that gets jail time, there are a LOT of stages one has to go through before they see the inside of a prison.
I mean hell, a couple of summers ago there was that guy in the paper who had been convicted of what, 88 federal offences by the time he was 21 and had yet to spend any time in prison?
As I have posted before, the penal system in Norway is similar to the penal system in most (northern) continental european countries.Perhaps the standard of living is so amazing in Norway, that no matter how "nice" the prisons are, people would rather be living life in society? I don't know. But their statistics on recidivism speak volumes!
I do not know anybody who would want to be in prison, no matter how nice the prisons are. It is telling that north americans talk incessently about freedom (live free or die) but at the same time have the idea that people would want to live in prisons, i.e without freedom. I doubt that anyone posting here would like to tell the family, the coworkers and the employer that he/she is spending the next month in Jail. The humiliation of that is sufficient deterrent for almost all people.
Anyway, the rehabilitation / reintegration route works. That cannot be denied.
If I may butt in here, in scandinavia all education is free, to any level a person is capable of reaching. Students are not literally paid to go to school, but there are generous grants and loans available for everyone. And typically (I know denmark) retraining is available for all unemployed poeple.Randy G: not only do they pay you to GO to school, but they pay the tuition too I believe. I saw on 60 minutes (love that show) where there were 10 students, all in their 30's who were working on their second bachelor's degree.....
I never have understood, why students in Canada have to pay tuition. Clearly, society will benefit from a well educated population, and should encourage education. If you look at a country like Denmartk (sorry, I am irritating many terbites) without any natural ressources, it is doing well because its popolation is very well educated.
Once again referring to Goodfellas: going to jail was a right of passage and something to be proud of. In fact, I have encounted more than a couple of people who were not ashamed at all to brag about the time they did.As I have posted before, the penal system in Norway is similar to the penal system in most (northern) continental european countries.
I do not know anybody who would want to be in prison, no matter how nice the prisons are. It is telling that north americans talk incessently about freedom (live free or die) but at the same time have the idea that people would want to live in prisons, i.e without freedom. I doubt that anyone posting here would like to tell the family, the coworkers and the employer that he/she is spending the next month in Jail. The humiliation of that is sufficient deterrent for almost all people.
Anyway, the rehabilitation / reintegration route works. That cannot be denied.
I remember one time I almost got my lights punched out because I called someone a goof, He told me that the ONLY reason he didn't was because he knew that I didn't know what it meant. I said to him: well, I DO know what it means, it is an offshoot of the disney character "goofy". He said "no, a goof in prison is someone who rats you out to the guards". I said "well, there you have it, I've never been to prison and in the world I come from? Goofy/Goof is a disney character". Hence why I never hung around with him, or his cronies ever again.
doesn't Canada have the most educated cab drivers in the world?I never have understood, why students in Canada have to pay tuition. Clearly, society will benefit from a well educated population, and should encourage education.
I wonder if there are times that the guards get confused which side of the gate they are suppose to be at the end of their shift..The facility boasts amenities like a sound studio, jogging trails and a freestanding two-bedroom house where inmates can host their families during overnight visits. ... The cells rival well-appointed college dorm rooms, with their flat-screen TVs and minifridges. ..... Half the guards are women — Hoidal believes this decreases aggression ...."None of us were forced to work here."
isn't the biggest deterrence for potential white collar criminals the proverbial black guy fucking the white collar guy in the ass?I also agree with white collar criminals being kept separate from violent offenders. Now they shouldn't be treated to BBQs and hot tub parties every friday like they do at Club Fed, but they shouldn't be doing "hard time". They should be forced to teach other inmates about business, investing, etc.
Norway does many things backwards. Then again, crime is already low there and they don't have to house many hardcore criminals.
They only succeed at doing things backwards because they're a small, relatively isolated nation, that has a history of remaining neutral in World Wars.
The way things are done in Norway isn't applicable to major nations.
They only succeed at doing things backwards because they're a small, relatively isolated nation, that has a history of remaining neutral in World Wars.
The way things are done in Norway isn't applicable to major nations.
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*raises hand*Questions
1. Is there anyone here that has ever worked as a C.O. in the Provincial or Federal system of Canada?
I was gonna stay out of this, but this whole "we coddle criminals, there's no deterrent" etc. etc. nonsense is based on an outsider's view.
Seen from the inside (working there, not incarcerated) it's no fun. It's not glamorous. It's dangerous. It's extremely restrictive. And ever single one of them, without exception, wants out.
Ask yourself this: How many people actually try to break in to prison?
**Shakes head***
How can anyone use the words "luxurious" and "prison" in the same phrase? Why on earth would anyone want to make a prison luxurious? So the criminals will WANNA STAY???
I mean really... WTF!?
How can anyone use the words "luxurious" and "prison" in the same phrase? Why on earth would anyone want to make a prison luxurious? So the criminals will WANNA STAY???
I mean really... WTF!?
"Prison guards don't carry guns and they routinely eat meals and play...with the inmatesI wonder if there are times that the guards get confused which side of the gate they are suppose to be at the end of their shift..
Half the guards are women...and prisoners receive questionnaires asking how their experience in prison can be improved."
LOL - A Terb-type review system of the female guards?
You don't know what you are talking about. Most European countries have penal systems based upon the same principles of rehabilitation/reintegration as Norway (who was not neutral in WWII). Why do they have that system? Because it works!Norways does many things backwards. Then again, crime is already low there and they don't have to house many hardcore criminals.
They only succeed at doing things backwards because they're a small, relatively isolated nation, that has a history of remaining neutral in World Wars.
The way things are done in Norway isn't applicable to major nations.
germany and France were not particularly neutral in the world wars, neither are they smnall, isolated countries.
I wouldn't put any particular stock in the figures cited in the Time magazine article. I'm not a sociologist but it seems two years is a totally inadequate follow-up. In Finland, after five years, the rate of recidivism is almost 60%. http://www.rikosseuraamus.fi/21171.htmAs I have posted before, the penal system in Norway is similar to the penal system in most (northern) continental european countries.
I do not know anybody who would want to be in prison, no matter how nice the prisons are. It is telling that north americans talk incessently about freedom (live free or die) but at the same time have the idea that people would want to live in prisons, i.e without freedom. I doubt that anyone posting here would like to tell the family, the coworkers and the employer that he/she is spending the next month in Jail. The humiliation of that is sufficient deterrent for almost all people.
Anyway, the rehabilitation / reintegration route works. That cannot be denied.
An Italian study of the impact of prison conditions on recidivism seemed to conclude there was little effect. ftp://ftp.iza.org/dps/dp3395.pdf
From my internet searching, I'd say it's a difficult field in which to come up with valid conclusions across countries and across cultures.
jwm
Thank you. Unless one has been incarcerated or employed as a C.O. Everything this is speculation.*raises hand*
I was gonna stay out of this, but this whole "we coddle criminals, there's no deterrent" etc. etc. nonsense is based on an outsider's view.
Seen from the inside (working there, not incarcerated) it's no fun. It's not glamorous. It's dangerous. It's extremely restrictive. And ever single one of them, without exception, wants out.
Ask yourself this: How many people actually try to break in to prison?
If it is such a deterrent, why are there so many repeat offenders?*raises hand*
I was gonna stay out of this, but this whole "we coddle criminals, there's no deterrent" etc. etc. nonsense is based on an outsider's view.
Seen from the inside (working there, not incarcerated) it's no fun. It's not glamorous. It's dangerous. It's extremely restrictive. And ever single one of them, without exception, wants out.
Ask yourself this: How many people actually try to break in to prison?
because criminals don't think of the consequences when they commit a crime.If it is such a deterrent, why are there so many repeat offenders?
There is one statistics that does not lie: Prison population by 100,000 by country:I wouldn't put any particular stock in the figures cited in the Time magazine article. I'm not a sociologist but it seems two years is a totally inadequate follow-up. In Finland, after five years, the rate of recidivism is almost 60%. http://www.rikosseuraamus.fi/21171.htm
An Italian study of the impact of prison conditions on recidivism seemed to conclude there was little effect. ftp://ftp.iza.org/dps/dp3395.pdf
From my internet searching, I'd say it's a difficult field in which to come up with valid conclusions across countries and across cultures.
jwm
# 1 United States: 715 per 100,000 people
# 2 Russia: 584 per 100,000 people
# 3 Belarus: 554 per 100,000 people
# 4 Palau: 523 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belize: 459 per 100,000 people
# 6 Suriname: 437 per 100,000 people
# 7 Dominica: 420 per 100,000 people
# 8 Ukraine: 416 per 100,000 people
# 9 Bahamas, The: 410 per 100,000 people
# 10 South Africa: 402 per 100,000 people
# 11 Kyrgyzstan: 390 per 100,000 people
# 12 Singapore: 388 per 100,000 people
# 13 Kazakhstan: 386 per 100,000 people
# 14 Barbados: 367 per 100,000 people
# 15 Panama: 354 per 100,000 people
# 16 Trinidad and Tobago: 351 per 100,000 people
# 17 Thailand: 340 per 100,000 people
= 18 Estonia: 339 per 100,000 people
= 18 Latvia: 339 per 100,000 people
# 20 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 338 per 100,000 people
# 21 Grenada: 333 per 100,000 people
# 22 Botswana: 327 per 100,000 people
# 23 Swaziland: 324 per 100,000 people
# 24 Mongolia: 303 per 100,000 people
# 25 Antigua and Barbuda: 278 per 100,000 people
# 26 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: 270 per 100,000 people
# 27 Namibia: 267 per 100,000 people
# 28 Tunisia: 253 per 100,000 people
# 29 Taiwan: 250 per 100,000 people
# 30 Saint Lucia: 243 per 100,000 people
# 31 Lithuania: 234 per 100,000 people
# 32 Costa Rica: 229 per 100,000 people
# 33 Iran: 226 per 100,000 people
# 34 Mauritius: 214 per 100,000 people
# 35 Poland: 210 per 100,000 people
# 36 Uruguay: 209 per 100,000 people
# 37 Seychelles: 207 per 100,000 people
# 38 Chile: 204 per 100,000 people
# 39 Azerbaijan: 198 per 100,000 people
# 40 Romania: 193 per 100,000 people
# 41 Uzbekistan: 184 per 100,000 people
# 42 Czech Republic: 178 per 100,000 people
= 43 Morocco: 176 per 100,000 people
= 43 Jamaica: 176 per 100,000 people
# 45 Guyana: 175 per 100,000 people
# 46 Israel: 174 per 100,000 people
# 47 Libya: 173 per 100,000 people
# 48 Honduras: 172 per 100,000 people
= 49 Mexico: 169 per 100,000 people
= 49 Brazil: 169 per 100,000 people
= 51 Slovakia: 165 per 100,000 people
= 51 Hungary: 165 per 100,000 people
= 53 Malaysia: 161 per 100,000 people
= 53 Tajikistan: 161 per 100,000 people
# 55 New Zealand: 160 per 100,000 people
# 56 El Salvador: 158 per 100,000 people
# 57 Dominican Republic: 157 per 100,000 people
# 58 Bahrain: 155 per 100,000 people
# 59 Georgia: 148 per 100,000 people
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= 62 Lesotho: 143 per 100,000 people
= 62 Nicaragua: 143 per 100,000 people
= 64 Madagascar: 130 per 100,000 people
= 64 Portugal: 130 per 100,000 people
= 66 Cameroon: 129 per 100,000 people
= 66 Burundi: 129 per 100,000 people
# 68 Bulgaria: 127 per 100,000 people
# 69 Colombia: 126 per 100,000 people
# 70 Zambia: 121 per 100,000 people
# 71 China: 119 per 100,000 people
# 72 Fiji: 117 per 100,000 people
= 73 Canada: 116 per 100,000 people
= 73 Australia: 116 per 100,000 people
= 73 Tanzania: 116 per 100,000 people
# 76 Netherlands: 112 per 100,000 people
= 77 Luxembourg: 111 per 100,000 people
= 77 Kenya: 111 per 100,000 people
= 79 Central African Republic: 110 per 100,000 people
= 79 Algeria: 110 per 100,000 people
= 79 Saudi Arabia: 110 per 100,000 people
# 82 Rwanda: 109 per 100,000 people
# 83 Argentina: 107 per 100,000 people
= 84 Tonga: 106 per 100,000 people
= 84 Jordan: 106 per 100,000 people
= 86 Albania: 105 per 100,000 people
= 86 Sri Lanka: 105 per 100,000 people
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= 89 Kuwait: 102 per 100,000 people
= 89 Bolivia: 102 per 100,000 people
= 91 Austria: 100 per 100,000 people
= 91 Italy: 100 per 100,000 people
# 93 Germany: 96 per 100,000 people = 94 Qatar: 95 per 100,000 people
= 94 France: 95 per 100,000 people
# 96 Philippines: 94 per 100,000 people
# 97 Syria: 93 per 100,000 people
= 98 Armenia: 92 per 100,000 people
= 98 Turkey: 92 per 100,000 people
# 100 Andorra: 90 per 100,000 people
# 101 Belgium: 88 per 100,000 people
= 102 Yemen: 83 per 100,000 people
= 102 Greece: 83 per 100,000 people
= 104 Benin: 81 per 100,000 people
= 104 Oman: 81 per 100,000 people
# 106 Sao Tome and Principe: 79 per 100,000 people
# 107 Venezuela: 76 per 100,000 people
= 108 Sweden: 75 per 100,000 people
= 108 Paraguay: 75 per 100,000 people
= 110 Switzerland: 72 per 100,000 people
= 110 Denmark: 72 per 100,000 people
= 110 Malta: 72 per 100,000 people
= 113 Vietnam: 71 per 100,000 people
= 113 Finland: 71 per 100,000 people
# 115 Malawi: 70 per 100,000 people
# 116 Guatemala: 68 per 100,000 people
# 117 Papua New Guinea: 66 per 100,000 people
= 118 Norway: 64 per 100,000 people
= 118 Croatia: 64 per 100,000 people
# 120 Djibouti: 61 per 100,000 people
= 121 Ecuador: 59 per 100,000 people
= 121 Pakistan: 59 per 100,000 people
= 121 Slovenia: 59 per 100,000 people
= 124 Tuvalu: 56 per 100,000 people
= 124 Kiribati: 56 per 100,000 people
= 126 Senegal: 54 per 100,000 people
= 126 Japan: 54 per 100,000 people
