In order to be exempt, you must produce your native indian status card, it has the band number, name of the tribe, and your ID number. As far as i know (when i was assistant manager of a retail store) it is not retroactive, so they can't apply for the refund later. It has to be done then and there.
Natives do not pay taxes?
- Thread starter truedat
- Start date
Also pay First Nations hundreds of millions of dollars for erecting hydro wires on their land and allowing them to protest in perpetuity in Caledonia.
Those who try to take the argument back to first principles and say that even aboriginal folks took the land from other aboriginal folks, etc, and we are all human, etc...are ignoring that we have to deal with the power structure as it stands. The British government made treaties with sovereign nations of aboriginal people. The govt. of Canada is the successor of the British Empire in North America, and has an obligation to abide by the treaties. Guilt has nothing to do with it (as much as the left would like Toronto--sorry, Canada---to believe.) It's law. That's just the way it is.
It's noble and legal and clear. But also doesn't really help aboriginal folks become 100% members of this society, fosters envy, disrespect, etc.
I guess we need to find a middle ground whereby aboriginal people and "latecomers" can function in the same society as full members, while retaining some distinctness. Speaking of distinctness 9if that's a word) the issue makes Quebec sovereignty seem like a laughing matter---despite all their whining about distinct society rights, francophone Quebeckers have rights, freedoms, a high standard of living, and share in the power structure of the country in a way aboriginal nations could only dream of!
It's noble and legal and clear. But also doesn't really help aboriginal folks become 100% members of this society, fosters envy, disrespect, etc.
I guess we need to find a middle ground whereby aboriginal people and "latecomers" can function in the same society as full members, while retaining some distinctness. Speaking of distinctness 9if that's a word) the issue makes Quebec sovereignty seem like a laughing matter---despite all their whining about distinct society rights, francophone Quebeckers have rights, freedoms, a high standard of living, and share in the power structure of the country in a way aboriginal nations could only dream of!
Now I only have experience with a few aboriginals so it isn't like it's a society wide survey or anything but 3 HAVE become members of society. Not by sitting on their reservation soaking up the freebies, but by coming OFF the reservation, getting even a minor education, getting a job, renting an apartment, etc etc etc. Now I realize there are a lot of prejudices against them, just like all visible minorities and life can be tough, but for me, I don't judge by the colour of one's skin, I judge by their actions.
Now maybe I have a better grip on things. When I was 13 I went on an exchange program with the stony indians outside of Calgary. Yeah we stayed in TeePees and it was funny, my co-hort said to me the first night: F me, this is the first time I slept in one of these things lol.....Yeah we did the stereotypical things like horseback riding (where the horses weren't trail horses and knew the route so we didn't have to steer), ate bear meat (tough but good), did beadwork, leatherwork etc. but we also visited their homes and hung out. It was interesting to see the ones you knew were going to make it, and the ones that were destined to be trouble. Just like everyone else, the ones who grew up in a decent house, had decent parents, and were polite, were the ones who were going to make it. The ones who grew up in a junk yard, with drunken parents, crumbling homes, (who also had the best dope) knew they were going to be trouble.
Really, they weren't so different that the cross section of my classmates: you knew who would, and wouldn't become a valued member of society.
I know I know, who wants to forget their heritage and jump into the melting pot our society has become but the thing is, you CAN integrate yet maintain your identity. The smarts ones I met talked about their future as well as taught us about their past. I remember one intro'd me to his grandfather who had been around since the turn of the century and had seen a LOT. Like many of our grandfathers they didn't even have a school when he was growing up......One thing I noticed about him though: he was proud, but not SO proud that he wouldn't do anything to feed and house his family. He told me about working in the oil fields and while his buddies would go out just about every night and get hammered, and blow their paycheque, he sent it home to his family so he couldn't.
Now maybe I have a better grip on things. When I was 13 I went on an exchange program with the stony indians outside of Calgary. Yeah we stayed in TeePees and it was funny, my co-hort said to me the first night: F me, this is the first time I slept in one of these things lol.....Yeah we did the stereotypical things like horseback riding (where the horses weren't trail horses and knew the route so we didn't have to steer), ate bear meat (tough but good), did beadwork, leatherwork etc. but we also visited their homes and hung out. It was interesting to see the ones you knew were going to make it, and the ones that were destined to be trouble. Just like everyone else, the ones who grew up in a decent house, had decent parents, and were polite, were the ones who were going to make it. The ones who grew up in a junk yard, with drunken parents, crumbling homes, (who also had the best dope) knew they were going to be trouble.
Really, they weren't so different that the cross section of my classmates: you knew who would, and wouldn't become a valued member of society.
I know I know, who wants to forget their heritage and jump into the melting pot our society has become but the thing is, you CAN integrate yet maintain your identity. The smarts ones I met talked about their future as well as taught us about their past. I remember one intro'd me to his grandfather who had been around since the turn of the century and had seen a LOT. Like many of our grandfathers they didn't even have a school when he was growing up......One thing I noticed about him though: he was proud, but not SO proud that he wouldn't do anything to feed and house his family. He told me about working in the oil fields and while his buddies would go out just about every night and get hammered, and blow their paycheque, he sent it home to his family so he couldn't.
Ancient history. If they want to live in teepees (sp?) and hunt with bow and arrow fine. Otherwise join modern society and pay like the rest of us.
I realize there were a lot of wrongs perpetrated on the natives of north america. I was born here for the people that think I have no knowledge of historic events. There were also a lot of negative things perpetrated by various groups on other minorities such as the chinese, east indians, french etc. It still does not make it right to have a special exemption for certain groups based on historic wrong perpetrated upon them.
But now I understand the PST issue in regards to natives. They pay federal taxes but are treated as though they do not reside in Ontario therefore they are exempt from PST.
But now I understand the PST issue in regards to natives. They pay federal taxes but are treated as though they do not reside in Ontario therefore they are exempt from PST.
ANOTHER STEREOTYPE from someone who doesn't know any better.
OK, first of all, I AM MOHAWK (wolf clan)!!!! and I would like to thank all those posters here who based their posts on FACTUAL information and not on mere hearsay or other political, or sociological proppaganda.
Yes I am native, I work in your world and I pay your taxes. Even though our treaties (SIGNED CONTRACTS in your world) state that I don't have to. Our treaties guarantee me and my native brothers and sisters certain "freedoms" for allowing the non-natives to use our land (more like destroy it). However, pencil pushers like McGuinty, those before him and those yet to come have slowly eliminated our "freedoms" WITHOUT prior negotiations with, or even consideration of my people. As far as I know unilaterally changing a CONTRACT without prior negotiation with ALL affected parties is NOT legal or binding. I guess the government forgot about that part, but still they do it.
It's like me agreeing to buy your house for 200 grand AND signing a contract with you for that amount. Then on closing day I show up with $1.98 saying that this is all I have and that you have to move anyways..... You wouldn't stand for it..... Why should we????
My people's traditional territory stretches from West Virginia to Quebec and north to Sudbury and now, to live as WHO WE ARE we're forced to live on reservations. Are you aware that WE are the only race of people in North America that both the American and Canadian governments do this too? Does anyone remember the Japanese Americans during the second world war?..... How about the leper colonies? Canada continually points it's fat finger at other countries over their human rights issues, when they haven't even begun to resolve their own yet.
Don't tell me about YOUR court system, and that there's ways to resolve our / your issues. We've had land claims and other matters before YOUR court for HUNDREDS of years and they are no closer to being resolved now than they were when we first brought them to your court.
One of the "freedons" that we have a right to is that the land that we live on (reservations) are tax free zones. But when we have industries (tax free cigarettes) on reservation land that employ our people and then we sell them on our land (again tax free) the government calls them illegal!? You want to know why? Because the government isn't making any money from it!!!! They give us this right and then when we use it they call it illegal!?
Pre 911 it was kind of an unwritten rule that aboriginal people because of their traditional (trans border) territory were to be considered as citizens of North America and as such were not subject to the same customs scrutiny when crossing the border. However when we bought something in the U.S. and brought it back home and didn't pay customs on it, the government calls it smuggling. It's the same as you buying something in Mississauga and bringing it back to Toronto. WE HAVE NO BORDERS.... Why is this smuggling????
Does anyone remember the "Oka Crisis" back in 1990? Do you know that the government sent more soldiers there to fight 2 dozen armed natives than they sent to the Middle East to fight Sadam Hussein and his WHOLE ARMY? How do you justify that? And what was that about you ask?..... You wanted a golf course..... We were protecting our burial grounds!!!!
My people have faced generations of abuse and GENNOCIDE at the hands of the your Residential School System. There are people in the former Yugoslavia that were sentenced to death or life in prison for less. And what do we get????.... A F*CKING APPOLOGY from Harper and the Pope. Am I the only one who sees something totally wrong with this?
I could go on and on.... But I'm not going to I've said enough already, for now.
If you've never lived as a native in this country, faced the life long descrimination, the abuse and if you're going to post something here based entirely on hearsay, propaganda or something you read somewhere in a textbook (published again by the government) then don't bother. You're wasting your time. The best thing you can do (if you're not sure of something) is to ask LEGITIMATE questions. I'm sure that there are people here who will give you straight up answers (me included).
As far as the HST's concerned.... Let's just say that WE haven't played our final hand yet! Soon a lot more people will become aware of the situation that my people face.
I am and will always be ONE DAMN PROUD MOHAWK!!!!!.... Onongwedala Agwegs Ongwe That's one thing your government will NEVER be able to take away from me!!!!!
YOUR = non-native
C'mon Rocky.... I thought that you were smarter than this!!??
The government approached the Massassauga's of New Credit River generations ago and offered to sell off a piece of their territory and give them the money from that sale. The agreement was made, the land was sold, but the people NEVER got the money for the sale... So ergo.... No money = no sale!
AND if someone was to put say a cell phone tower in your backyard.... Wouldn't you want compensation (RENT) for that?
Here is one of several examples. The "James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement". Quebec paid a total of $600 million to the Cree Indians for their land claim.
The reason that land claims haven't been settled yet can not be laid solely at the feet of government or the courts. Aboriginal people in Canada have been granted, IMHO, hunting and fishing rights that go far beyond what is "right".
Remember all the cigarettes your people smuggled through Akwesasne? Imperial Tobacco Canada Ltd. and Rothmans, Benson & Hedges pleaded guilty in 2008 (I believe) and paid a huge fine. How much did your nation pay for their part in the smuggling?
Maybe you can explain this to me then - "Every single person in this community knows (from a band rule adopted in 1981) that ... we have the right to determine who lives here. I don't know why people think it has anything to do with racism ... our law says (non-natives) don't have the right to live here."
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/768952
Bif - I'm glad you're proud, honestly. And believe it or not, I try to understand your anger and frustration. I can only hope that you and more that live in your nation can try to understand my frustration.
To what do you base this comment on? Are you privy to some sort of information that the rest of us aren't? If so POST IT! And what, if anything, do hunting and fishing rights and land claims have to do with each other????
My people HAVE NO BORDERS..... Bringing something back accross a line that doesn't exist for us IS NOT SMUGGLING!!!!
In order to live as FULL STATUS NATIVES, to live as who we are, the government tells us that we HAVE to live on reservations. To leave the rez. would be in part to loose our identity as given by your government. Again, your government gave each reservation the right to elect their own tribal council, who have the ability to draft or adopt rules that are specific to each rez.'s requirements or limitations. These "codes" include citizenship. SOME, not all councils, use these citizenship codes when referring / dealing with non - native residents. IE; Not a citizen = Not a resident.
OK...... Now you're talking about the Cree in Quebec!!!!!..... Your original post was about the Massassauga's of New Credit River in Caledonia...... Different land claim, different time AND different people.... Don't confuse the two!
What he said..........my son is half Cree Half me.And I want the treaties to be respected.The ignornace of so many people on this thread is so frustrating!Learn,then talk.Or shut the hell up.
No "inside info", only first hand experience. I have had the privilege to be involved with several meetings with the Cree in the far north. They are good people and I always had a very interesting and informative time with them. However, many times when we had a meeting set up, there was no one to talk with. Why? A variety of reasons. Please understand that I'm not placing blame on one side or the other. I'm just saying it takes two to tango and sometimes one side or the other isn't quite ready to dance.
WRT the Sparrow decision - I would honestly be interested to know how many First Nation peoples hunt/fish as their main source of food below the 50th parallel. I personally know a couple of guys on Manitoulin that fish out of season for whatever they can get and sell the fish. Somehow I don't think that is what the SCC had in mind when they rendered Sparrow.
Maybe not to you, but when what you are bring back something that was destined to be sold across a border that we, and the companies that pleaded guilty, recognize, ANYONE facilitating that transfer is a smuggler, IMHO.
And there is the crux of your "problem". It seems that you, personally, feel that you have no identity off "the rez". Why are you letting the government tell you that "to live as who we are, we HAVE to live on reservations"? Can't you be a member of a First Nation and live in the GTA? I know you are proud of who you are and where you come from - many of us are. I just think it's time to stop using the "rez" as a crutch.
I really don't mean to be a hardass but the "not a citizen=not a resident" was just too much. Do you hold a Canadian Passport?
people have the right to express their opinion, whether you agree with it or not.
The simple fact is: Aboriginals are exempt from certain things. Provincial taxes being one. That's really not a big thing. Let it go. One day perhaps they will not allow themselves to be treated as welfare recipients. This age-old tactic is still used to marginalize whole sections of the populace (re: food stamps in the US). Providing free housing, booze, casinos...all successful efforts to keep the aboriginals down. No segregation required. They do it themselves. Since we're talking about treaties from long ago, nobody could really think the rulers of the day liked the "Indians". They hated them. So how best to make sure they NEVER become part of society? hmmmmmmm. "How about we give them a place to live and as long as they stay there, they never pay taxes? How about we let them pretend to have their own police force?"
I'm sorry for the Aboriginal youth. No future. No support from their own culture and certainly no support from outside.
I'm sorry for the Aboriginal youth. No future. No support from their own culture and certainly no support from outside.
