Mechanic Rip Off.
- Thread starter RickC
- Start date
You really need to learn a bit of chemistry. Sulphuric acid is usually aqueous in a storage battery. That means that it has water as a component along with the H2SO4. THAT is simply part of the chemistry in the battery system.
A
Another_Mod
Tboy, I was in the parts supply business, primarily the electrical end of things......we sold tons of batteries per month, and yes, if they are dead, they freeze, and yes, Toronto has had cold enough weather this winter for a (dead) battery to freeze.
perhaps limit yourself to discussions that you truly know something about, rather than try to be an expert in all feilds....
perhaps limit yourself to discussions that you truly know something about, rather than try to be an expert in all feilds....
I've had batteries freeze.
I have a car that is infrequently driven. The battery gets weak. I have to bring it in, or IT WILL FREEZE. Had it happen a few times actually.
I have a car that is infrequently driven. The battery gets weak. I have to bring it in, or IT WILL FREEZE. Had it happen a few times actually.
What the hell is a car being parked for so long by a "professional" mechanic. At most it should take 2 days and that is for any car.
For $900 it sounds like shade tree mechanic work at professional prices.
For $900 it sounds like shade tree mechanic work at professional prices.
and maybe you should take english comp for beginners? Never once did I say a flat battery couldn't freeze. If you care to back up your post, please indicate where I did? I simply stated that we haven't experienced whether cold enough to freeze a (properly maintained) battery. Now I didn't come out and say that specifically, it is a given. If you own a car, you properly maintain it. Including making sure the battery is charged, oil changed regularly, and stated as such when the OP stated "the mechanic froze the battery".
In addition, I alluded to the fact that the battery was more than likely fucked when he took the car in. If it was improperly maintained, (ie: not enough acid in the cells, overcharged and run dry) then yes, the battery can freeze but no matter what, everything I've said is correct: with the proper acid content the battery won't freeze. If it has been properly maintained, it won't freeze.
Thank you, thank you very much!
And if you were in the parts business you would know that you dont' ship, or store, batteries with acid (or anything) in them. Unless of course it is a sealed gel cell type battery. So, while a new battery can get pretty fricken cold, there should be nothing to freeze in them.....
Now if you're talking over the counter sales, then if the batteries you were selling froze, then YOU weren't putting the correct acid concentration in them and weren't ensuring they were properly charged before giving them to the customer. You see, I've sold thousands of batteries too and know the drill. If I sent a battery out dead? I'd have been fired or at the very least, docked pay. You see, every battery we sold had to be filled, and checked with a load tester/charger before giving it out to the mechanic or customer. If it didn't past the specific gravity test and the load test, we got another off the shelf and filled it.
Rub et al can check on this but I believe it is illegal to ship an automotive battery with acid in it.
and yet again, a properly maintained battery will hold a charge (and not freeze). If you have the correct acid concentration in it, IT WON'T freeze. Don't argue with me on it, check the graph:
http://www.resistoflex.com/sulfuric_graphs.htm
at 33% the freezing point is around -63 you trying to tell me we've experienced -63 in toronto? Not since 1859......
You already agreed, that a battery that has lost it's charge (gone flat) can freeze. So stop your silly arguing about the
freezing point of sulphoric acid.
-You said the symptom is still there after the chain was changed. Did the mechanic rule out a problem with the tensioning system, or with oil pressure? If so, make him put that in writting on your receipt.
It could be possible that the mechanic took you for a ride with that belt replacement. But I wouldn't necessarily go to the bank with your other shops "second opinion" unless they meticulously inspected and measured every individual link with calippers for compliance with factory specs.
Many people don't realize that the easiest way for one mechanic to kiss your ass is to tell you that something you paid to have done elsewhere was not needed. That's easy for them to say after the fact because there is no way they can be made to stand behinf their claim. People who always wait for something to fail completely are the ones you see getting towed into shops and spending days without a car or paying for rentals on top of their repair (often having done additional damage from driving it to the end... ) and the really crooked shops encourage this because they know that's when they'll have maximum leverage on the customer....
BTW, by "m/b symbol" are you referring to a Mercedes Benz logo?
It could be possible that the mechanic took you for a ride with that belt replacement. But I wouldn't necessarily go to the bank with your other shops "second opinion" unless they meticulously inspected and measured every individual link with calippers for compliance with factory specs.
Many people don't realize that the easiest way for one mechanic to kiss your ass is to tell you that something you paid to have done elsewhere was not needed. That's easy for them to say after the fact because there is no way they can be made to stand behinf their claim. People who always wait for something to fail completely are the ones you see getting towed into shops and spending days without a car or paying for rentals on top of their repair (often having done additional damage from driving it to the end... ) and the really crooked shops encourage this because they know that's when they'll have maximum leverage on the customer....
BTW, by "m/b symbol" are you referring to a Mercedes Benz logo?
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H.I.: this is why someone else suggested that they should only take the advice of a mechanic who will agree to stand up in court to support their conclusions. This is why I hate those Mike Holmes shows: it is so easy to second guess the previous guy when you have nothing to lose and an unlimited budget.
Now if the OP took his car to one of these other mechanics? Who is to say that what they are proposing will actually find the noise? Will we get another thread from the OP saying another mechanic ripped him off? Possibly....as I said, noises are really difficult to diagnose and repair since there are thousands of things that could be causing it.....
Now if the OP took his car to one of these other mechanics? Who is to say that what they are proposing will actually find the noise? Will we get another thread from the OP saying another mechanic ripped him off? Possibly....as I said, noises are really difficult to diagnose and repair since there are thousands of things that could be causing it.....
I have had them freeze as well you can tell by the expansion of the case
They will still hold a charge after thawing
Most likely not. If your's did, you were lucky.
I have a couple of tractors, that sit in the barn over the winter. I know the problem, I can assure you.
I have had it happen twice and both times they kept working
Not sure but could be the quality of the battery as I never buy cheap
I believe that the issue would be more of retaining the paste in the electrode grids and also preventing the electrodes from shorting internally than the freezing and thawing of the electrolyte itself. But, that is for a traditional battery electrode. There may be some battery designs that overcome this issue with better electrode designs, I would imagine.
Suffice it to say that you are probably correct in that the better battery designs may mitigate freezing issues.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/cell_construction.htm
Flat Plate Electrodes
Cells Used in Lead Acid Battery
Source Eurobat
Source Eurobat
Flat plate cells typically used in Lead Acid batteries also have over a hundred years of history and development. The electrodes are made in the form of flat plates suspended in the electrolyte which is held in a suitable container which does not usually take part in the chemical reaction. A separator between the plates prevents them from touching eachother and short circuiting. This is another simple construction which is also used by many different cell chemistries. Its main advantage is that it can be scaled up to very large sizes, larger plates providing for higher currents and larger containers allowing high storage capacities.
Very often, the casing will crack from the stress of the "electrolyte" freezing.
yeah I was going to post that after Yoga commented that he had some freeze and still hold a charge afterwards. Hence why it is always good to maintain a battery properly. You can pick up solar or house current trickle chargers for $20 that will prevent a battery from freezing or going flat.
