Common Law Severance

[hak]

A friend asked me earlier this week thinking whether his termination package was fair. To me it seemed low, but I really had no good advice for him or what he could do and if common law could help him

Brief details:

Annual Salary of around $100,000
3+ years employed at company
Manager (professional designation)
May have to move to find a comparable job
Terminated as part of global restructuring.

He was offered six weeks of severance (three minimum by law + three above). It seemed below standard to me. Is it worth fighting?

Any online sources?

 

[destillat]

i'm in approximately the same pay scale in the public sector (non union)... 2 weeks per year of service is standard in my organization...

 

[Keebler Elf]

A little on the low side but it was probably the company's opening offer. Never accept the opening offer. Go back and say you think you deserve X. You need to calculate X in terms of how much you think the company is willing to pay to avoid the hassle and cost of a legal battle. You also need to factor in your own legal costs.

Why does he need to move to find a comparable job? The onus will be on him to prove that. If the company lured him away from another job, he'll have a better case but it has been 3 years and that mitigates whatever he might gain from being lured away (it's different if he was lured away and then terminated a number of weeks/months later).

How old is he? The older the better in terms of severance.

Really, he's fighting the common law battle. He's received the statutory minimum and a little bit more. It will likely be an uphill battle.

For real managers (with real and significant responsibilities; i.e., upper management) a good rule of thumb is 1 month per year of service. But that's for higher ups. At $100K/year, he's probably not in upper management.

His best recourse is to get a consultation with an employment lawyer. Should be a free consultation and he'll find out what he stands to potentially gain and at what cost.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/severance.php

 

[xix]

A little on the low side but it was probably the company's opening offer.

His best recourse is to get a consultation with an employment lawyer. Should be a free consultation and he'll find out what he stands to potentially gain and at what cost.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/severance.php

FREE!!!!!!! What freaking employment lawyer sees you for free? I like to meet that person. IT is 300.00 up front and when you call in they will ask you question. Just answered them if you are going to see her/him. This way they will have a statistics outline of cases that went to court in the same category or same scenerio as him to show their proof how much he can/should get.


FREE???????

 

[Anynym]

FREE???????

You get what you pay for.

As for the original question: Six weeks after three years sounds in line with what most companies I'm aware of are offering. It's not like he gave his life to the company.

 

[Ref]

If he is management then he should be able to get at least a month per year of service. If he is older, he may be able to sweeten the pot a bit. Make sure he asks for a continuation of all benefits during his severance period, any allowances he had (auto, cell, etc.), add vacation pay to lieu of notice, if he received a bonus in the prior year have it pro-rated, make the employer also pay for re-employment services (there are lots of companies - usually about $3-$5K) and have the company cover part of his legal fees.

They have provided the minimum legal package - There is room to bargain.

A free consultation with a labour lawyer (30 minutes should cover it) will more than provide a lawyer with enough information to make the case woth their while.

Good luck!

 

[Worf]

FREE!!!!!!! What freaking employment lawyer sees you for free? I like to meet that person. IT is 300.00 up front and when you call in they will ask you question. Just answered them if you are going to see her/him. This way they will have a statistics outline of cases that went to court in the same category or same scenerio as him to show their proof how much he can/should get.


FREE???????

Check the law society. They have a referral service that hooks you up to a lawyer for a FREE consultation for 1 hr. The problem is, I think only new lawyers or those looking for business might be on the list. But maybe not. In any case, if you give them your location, they will give you a name and then you call the lawyer, and explain where you got their number.

 

[Keebler Elf]

FREE!!!!!!! What freaking employment lawyer sees you for free? I like to meet that person. IT is 300.00 up front and when you call in they will ask you question.

Maybe the lawyers you're seeing know you're in IT and think you're stupid. Because apparently you are if you can't get yourself a free consultation.

A consultation just tells you whether or not you have any kind of case at all. Lawyers will do that (since apparently that's news to you...). After hearing what the lawyer has to say, you can proceed to retain them or not. That's when the meter starts running.

LOL! You didn't know you could get free consultations... Too funny!

 

[AdrenalinJunkie]

Keebler has it right with the lawyers. They will give a free consultation, but make sure you get a labour lawyer, not just any lawyer. And, they will not be able to have any dealings with your previous employer, but will refer you to others.

If you persue legal options, make sure you do a job search and document your search, as the onus will be on you that you have taken whatever steps you can to mitigate the impact on you, if it goes to court.

 

[hak]

Thanks all for the info.

 

[Lagavulin2]

...insulting comment removed...

A consultation just tells you whether or not you have any kind of case at all. Lawyers will do that (since apparently that's news to you...). After hearing what the lawyer has to say, you can proceed to retain them or not. That's when the meter starts running.

LOL! You didn't know you could get free consultations... Too funny!

That is correct and it is very common in Toronto to obtain a free initial consultation from highly qualified counsel.

In addition to the information in the original post, three key question an employment lawyer would ask about are;
1] Is there a union, if so you cannot sue the employer (this is where you need a labour lawyer rather than an employment lawyer)?
2] what was your previous employment and were you enticed into the new company while working with the previous employer?
3] Describe the manner of your termination in detail. If a person is let go in a demeaning manner they are entitled to further damages.

Then a couple of dozen basic questions later you will get an opinion. For a decision that is worth a minimum of $10,000 perhaps a free chat with a professional is worth the time.

 

[GDLLover]

A friend asked me earlier this week thinking whether his termination package was fair. To me it seemed low, but I really had no good advice for him or what he could do and if common law could help him

Brief details:

Annual Salary of around $100,000
3+ years employed at company
Manager (professional designation)
May have to move to find a comparable job
Terminated as part of global restructuring.

He was offered six weeks of severance (three minimum by law + three above). It seemed below standard to me. Is it worth fighting?

Any online sources?

Unfortunately, under 5 yrs of service there is no requirement for severance by law. However, they are required to give 20 weeks notice (whether it is working notice or paid in liu of). The company must display a mass termination notice as well as give the employees written notice of termination. Under 5 yrs service there is very little position to fight for more money.

Sorry for the bad news but the company sounds like their giving a good package (as long as they get the notice on top of what you stated).

If they are unsure there is a free 1/2hr law consultation available to get advice on if further action is recommended.

 

[Keebler Elf]

3] Describe the manner of your termination in detail. If a person is let go in a demeaning manner they are entitled to further damages.

They "may" be entitled to further damages. That's all arguable under common law. And it must be particularly egregious/embarassing (i.e., not just the normal embarassment of being sacked).

 

[Keebler Elf]

Unfortunately, under 5 yrs of service there is no requirement for severance by law.

D'OH!!! Missed that.

That's correct, without 5 years service there is no Severance. Also there must be at least 50+ employees and a payroll of $2.5 million before severance may apply.

There is, however Notice aka Termination Pay. The company must provide you with proper notice of your impending termination. That's 1 week per year of service up to 8 weeks. They can have you work through your notice period but most companies want you out of there ASAP and instead give you "Pay-in-Lieu of Notice", which basically means they pay you the 1 week per year of service and you're gone tomorrow.

There is no "right" to a job. An employer can terminate you for any reason (excluding termination based on discrimination under one of the protected categories under the Human Rights Code) so long as they either give you the notice period or pay-in-lieu of notice. They could tell you they don't like you if they wanted to (which would be a dumb way to go about it but they could).

So yes, they're basically giving the guy his 3 weeks notice plus an additional bonus 3 weeks. Which is a good deal.