Iggy and Droolin Agree on tax Harmonization
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I searched around for some evidence that Iggy had been against the HST harmonization in principle but all I could come up with was that Iggy didn't think much of Harper backing away from the HST - ie: not taking any responsibility for his role in selling it to the provinces with those sweetheart deals etc. I think you're being a bit melodramatic with your use of the word "duplicity". Iggy seems to be in favour of the provinces going the HST route and his only criticism has been (maybe) that it is being rolled out during a recession and that Harper shouldn't be pretending that he had nothing to do with it when he clearly had a major role by offering incentives designed to gain procincial acceptance.
HST is pretty much guaranteed to be unpopular since taxes are expected to go up so Iggy is just making sure Harper gets his share of the blame. It is clear that Harper encouraged the provinces to harmonize but it is also clear that he's now trying to deny that the CPOC played any part in it. Iggy can see Harper trying to sneak away from HST so he [Iggy] is being opportunistic by showing us what Harper is trying to do. Iggy is correct about Harper trying to cover his tracks. If I were in Iggy's shoes I'd have blown the whistle on Harper too. It isn't so much about the HST itself. It is more a reflection of Harper's character or lack of character in this case.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ignatieff-unfazed-by-signs-of-recovery/article1276532/
...."Asked about his B.C. appeal, he talked about themes of law and order, reaching out to Asia and China and made a pointed reference to the province's recently introduced harmonized sales tax, which has been a controversial burden for the Premier Gordon Campbell's Liberal government.
The federal Liberal Leader sought to put the 12 per cent HST, introduced after a provincial election in which the B.C. Liberals ruled it out, in play as the “Harper Sales Tax.”
He said his party is concerned the Tories have “pushed” sales tax harmonization across Canada at a time of recession, and “is now walking away from it, saying ‘It has nothing to do with us.' We think that's dishonest. They're fully implicated in this decision, and they should take responsibility for it.”
Without providing details, he said a federal Liberal government would look for ways to make the tax work better for British Columbians.
“For the moment, this squarely on Stephen Harper's shoulders. He keeps pushing this off, pretending it's a silly provincial matter,” he said. “It won't wash.”
HST is pretty much guaranteed to be unpopular since taxes are expected to go up so Iggy is just making sure Harper gets his share of the blame. It is clear that Harper encouraged the provinces to harmonize but it is also clear that he's now trying to deny that the CPOC played any part in it. Iggy can see Harper trying to sneak away from HST so he [Iggy] is being opportunistic by showing us what Harper is trying to do. Iggy is correct about Harper trying to cover his tracks. If I were in Iggy's shoes I'd have blown the whistle on Harper too. It isn't so much about the HST itself. It is more a reflection of Harper's character or lack of character in this case.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ignatieff-unfazed-by-signs-of-recovery/article1276532/
...."Asked about his B.C. appeal, he talked about themes of law and order, reaching out to Asia and China and made a pointed reference to the province's recently introduced harmonized sales tax, which has been a controversial burden for the Premier Gordon Campbell's Liberal government.
The federal Liberal Leader sought to put the 12 per cent HST, introduced after a provincial election in which the B.C. Liberals ruled it out, in play as the “Harper Sales Tax.”
He said his party is concerned the Tories have “pushed” sales tax harmonization across Canada at a time of recession, and “is now walking away from it, saying ‘It has nothing to do with us.' We think that's dishonest. They're fully implicated in this decision, and they should take responsibility for it.”
Without providing details, he said a federal Liberal government would look for ways to make the tax work better for British Columbians.
“For the moment, this squarely on Stephen Harper's shoulders. He keeps pushing this off, pretending it's a silly provincial matter,” he said. “It won't wash.”
Nice try slow 
The fact that you couldn't find it while the Canadian Press could doesn't convince me much as (Shania would say). Iggy is being very Chretien-GST-like with this whole issue except he can't dance as well as Chretien did.
So what is the Liberal Policy on HST slow?
From the September 2 2009 Vancouver Sun
The fact that you couldn't find it while the Canadian Press could doesn't convince me much as (Shania would say). Iggy is being very Chretien-GST-like with this whole issue except he can't dance as well as Chretien did.So what is the Liberal Policy on HST slow?
From the September 2 2009 Vancouver Sun
The HST was adopted by the provincial Liberals in BC.
Funny isn't it? Two Liberals planning to implement exactly the harmonized tax the Mulroney Conservatives invented and formerly touted. The new-minted Provincial Tory Leader's running hard against it, and no one mentions it was his party that gave us Ontarians the sales tax in the first place.
Certainly not Mr. Harper who dasn't dare defend 'his' sales tax under the circumstances. Nor Flaherty—suddenly struck dumb after publicly congartulating Dalton on 'finally getting on board. But if Hudak's right, were Harpo and Flattery just too dumb to see what a Bad Thing their tax would be for Ontario? Where they need to win seats? Soon?
And given that VATs are supposedly the newest, high-tech 'best' form of tax (Mulroney told us so, and all the economists say so) it does make the Cons look a tad craven.
Certainly not Mr. Harper who dasn't dare defend 'his' sales tax under the circumstances. Nor Flaherty—suddenly struck dumb after publicly congartulating Dalton on 'finally getting on board. But if Hudak's right, were Harpo and Flattery just too dumb to see what a Bad Thing their tax would be for Ontario? Where they need to win seats? Soon?
And given that VATs are supposedly the newest, high-tech 'best' form of tax (Mulroney told us so, and all the economists say so) it does make the Cons look a tad craven.
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I can see where your CP article claims Iggy "derided the blending of the provincial sales tax and the federal GST as the "Harper Sales Tax." It is true that Iggy LABELLED the recent HST announcements as "Harper Sales Tax" but I think he was just trying to make sure Harper's role would not be easily forgotten. And I'm not sure that this one sentence from CP amounts to anything as conclusive as a "finding". It is just an odd choice of words.Nice try slow
So what is the Liberal Policy on HST slow?
The CP writer isn't saying anything about the nature or the extent of Iggy's derision so I'd say CP was trying to make too much out of Iggy's little play on words. My searches failed to turn up anything to suggest Iggy had been questioning the rationale behind HST. If Iggy had gone on record as being against the HST, it would have created a bit of a splash because 2 Liberal premiers were buying in to it. But there is nothing beyond your single sentence. Your evidence consists of a few words but it's nothing you could hang your hat on. If you still want to peddle the notion that Iggy has done an about face on HST, you'll need something a bit more conclusive.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ca...aims-to-make-tories-hit-highway-57535347.html
..."Ignatieff used his media availability Friday to denounce the federal government's treatment of the provinces over the harmonized sales tax, or what he calls the "Harper sales tax."
He said the government has pushed the HST across the country during a recession and then has distanced itself when opposition to the tax heats up."
I think we'd be safer listening to Iggy than local candidates. Judging by the following, it looks like the Liberals are going along with it.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ignatieff-unfazed-by-signs-of-recovery/article1276532/
"Without providing details, he [Iggy] said a federal Liberal government would look for ways to make the tax work better for British Columbians."
Typical precise information on his plans I see
Is this guy ever going to develop a platform ?
I sure as hell hope so. Almost everyone who comments on politics is asking the same question. My theory is that he's keeping everything under wraps to reduce his exposure to attack ads. He may also be waiting until the gov't actually falls. I just saw an article claiming the The Bloc will support Harper this Friday because of that renovation credit bill. So it may be a while before the gov't falls and even longer before Iggy pulls his finger out.Typical precise information on his plans I see
Is this guy ever going to develop a platform ?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/15/bloc-election-motion.html
Bloc support for Tories to avert election call
The Bloc Québécois will support the Conservative government's budget motion on Friday, averting a federal election call this week.
The government is bringing forward a financial ways-and-means motion, which includes the popular tax credits for home renovation. It is considered a confidence issue, and its defeat could trigger an election.
Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe said his party had gone over the motion and supports it, in particular the tax credit. His party had asked for the tax credit back in November and Duceppe said it would be idiotic to vote against it....
This does let Iggy off the hook and it also makes Harper look hypocritical since he's the one who's now being propped up by those socialists and separatists. After all his huffing and puffing about Iggy and the near certainty that the Libs would form another coalition gov't propped up by NDP & Bloc, the shoe is now on the other foot.
I wonder if Iggy knew the NDP / Bloc would avoid an election when he withdrew his support. It was a bit of a gamble but it was also apparent that Layton was in no position to face the voters. It lets the Libs hold their heads a little higher since they're no longer voting for Harper while they claim he's unfit to lead the country. It also hurts Layton and the Bloc since they're still caving in while the Libs are not.
I wonder if Iggy knew the NDP / Bloc would avoid an election when he withdrew his support. It was a bit of a gamble but it was also apparent that Layton was in no position to face the voters. It lets the Libs hold their heads a little higher since they're no longer voting for Harper while they claim he's unfit to lead the country. It also hurts Layton and the Bloc since they're still caving in while the Libs are not.
What's really funny are Harpo and Flattery who praised Dalton only weeks ago for finally coming on board w/ the HST. Now they have to keep schtum, 'cause Hudak, their newboy at Queen's Park is campaignin against it.
Ya can't be pol unless ya can dance backwards.
Ya can't be pol unless ya can dance backwards.
Hudak is campaigning against it? I thought he was just pointing out McSquint's "partial" retraction. The news of this thread was McSquint publically implied an about-face by Iggy. It seems he ( McSquint) isn't quite as sure anymore.
You do also realize that there is no particular reason why any provincial party has to endorse their federal counterpart's party policies don't you? Look at Danny Williams for the best example of that. You do understand how Canadian politics works don't you ?
You do also realize that there is no particular reason why any provincial party has to endorse their federal counterpart's party policies don't you? Look at Danny Williams for the best example of that. You do understand how Canadian politics works don't you ?
Apparently the Atlantic provinces didn't experience large cost increases when they harmonized so you'd think Flaherty (and McGuinty) would be using that generally positive outcome to defend themselves. But McGuinty has said almost nothing about it - even though it's a big issue in today's by-election in St Paul's. Meanwhile, Flaherty and Harpo have been dancing backwards as if they had nothing to do with it. McGuinty may be offering no defence of HST right now in the hope that most of the fallout will blow in Harpo's direction during an election campaign. Sooner or later, all the players are going to have to explain this properly.
If the St Paul's byelection is any indication of Hudak's position, his candidate, Sue-Ann Levy, is campaigning against the HST for all she's worth.
But McGuinty recently claimed that Iggy would support ON's HST adventure if he [Iggy] became PM. Iggy denied any formal agreement with McGuinty because it would be inappropriate for an opposition leader to be cutting deals before he has a mandate. Still, it is clear that McGuinty is not backing away from HST. Iggy is quietly supporting McGuinty on this while he mocks Harpo for ducking the friendly fire generated by "his" HST.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2009/09/15/10913541-cp.html
Ignatieff agreed to HST: Ontario premier
By Maria Babbage, THE CANADIAN PRESS
TORONTO - Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff will support Ontario's controversial tax harmonization scheme if he becomes the next prime minister, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Tuesday, triggering a day-long scramble in Ignatieff's camp to explain his stance.
However, at the end of the day, Ignatieff's spokeswoman still wouldn't say where he stood on the single sales tax, only that there is no deal with McGuinty.
"He's leader of the Opposition and what he said is, 'I'm not in any position to make any arrangements with anyone, any province or any person, nor would I,"' said Jill Fairbrother.
"To say that he would, or that he hinted or ... any of that leaves the wrong impression entirely."
McGuinty set off the firestorm earlier in the day when he said Ignatieff agreed to support Ontario's HST plans.
"We have secured Mr. Ignatieff's commitment to moving ahead with the single sales tax should he earn the privilege of serving Canadians in government," he said.
Under pressure from the federal Liberals, McGuinty later acknowledged that there was no formal agreement.
"However, the clear impression I had was that the federal Liberal Party was supportive of the HST in Ontario," he said in a statement.
Fairbrother said she doesn't know where McGuinty got that impression.
"We haven't unveiled our economic platform," she said. "We would do that during an election."
Ontario and British Columbia's plans to merge their sales taxes with the federal GST next July requires legislation from both levels of government, which could be derailed if a national election was called.
In his earlier comments, McGuinty said he was confident that both provinces will obtain the "necessary commitments" to move to a single sales tax, no matter who formed the next government in Ottawa.
B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell said he hasn't talked to the federal Liberals about the blended tax, but expects that any new government would live up to the commitments made by its predecessors.
"We have an agreement with the federal government on how we'll proceed with this," he said in Victoria. "It's not with one party or another, it's with the federal government."
McGuinty's remarks were buttressed by suggestions from Ignatieff's own party that he wouldn't try to dissuade the provinces from harmonization, even though he's spoken out against it.
Ujjal Dosanjh, a former B.C. premier who has crusaded against the blended tax as a Vancouver MP, said a Liberal government wouldn't encourage the provinces to reconsider their harmonization plans.
"It's really up to them ultimately," he said in an interview. "They know my position but I would not interfere in provincial politics ... If I were (still) the premier I wouldn't want any federal politician telling me what to do."
Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan also confirmed he'd received assurances from his federal cousins that the $4.3 billion Ontario was promised to ease the transition was safe if they won the next election.
They did make some suggestions on how the tax could be better implemented, he added.
Ignatieff, who has withdrawn his party's support of the minority Conservative government, denounced what he called the "Harper Sales Tax" while visiting B.C. two weeks ago.
He criticized the Tories for pushing harmonization during a recession, then trying to disavow its role in convincing Ontario and B.C. to move ahead with it.
"And we think that's dishonest," he said. "They're fully implicated in this decision and they should take responsibility for it."
The Tories quickly pounced on Ignatieff's apparent support for the HST, calling it "calculated and "opportunistic.""
You gotta keep up:
And as you say, this is provincial stuff so only someone trying too hard would think the Iggster would be smeared by what Dalton does. As only the ignorant might imagine he could influence or undo it.
Hudak being the opportunist was not what amuses me; it's how quickly the FedCons backpedalled offstage after applauding and praising McGuinty for getting on the Old Mulroney HST bandwagon. Of course they don't have to agree amongst themselves, but you'd think one or both would make at least a token gesture towards having a principle or two.
But the finish where you, of all people, asked if I understand how our system works? The chuckles just keep on coming.
You gotta keep up:
And as you say, this is provincial stuff so only someone trying too hard would think the Iggster would be smeared by what Dalton does. And only the ignorant would imagine he could undo or even influence it.
Hudak being the opportunist was not what amuses me; it's how quickly the FedCons backpedalled offstage after applauding and praising McGuinty for getting on the Old Mulroney HST bandwagon. Of course they don't have to agree amongst themselves, but you'd think one or both would make at least a token gesture towards having a principle or two.
But the finish where you, of all people, asked if I understand how our system works? Why, the chuckles just keep on coming. I thought you'd decided my posts were too unintelligent to waste your time on, so I appreciate the giggles all the more.
After all the coverage of Bush calling Harper 'Steve', you'd think Harper would have the smarts and be more careful. During the press statements in the White House lobby and 'after' Obama referred to the PM as Prime Minister Harper. Smiley, still in his dazed state, referred to President Obama as Borack.
Duh!!!
Duh!!!
