I'm a little dismayed that you've written such an accusatory response to my polite difference of opinion. I believe you may be inadvertently lumping me in with the Original Post asking if legal action is warranted:
1) nowhere in my post did I say legal action should be pursued or even encouraged. I simply believe a conversation should happen. When it takes places is a swinging target: how much do we have to divulge of ourselves on a first meet? A second? Etc. but I do believe it's a conversation that has to happen before either party goes down too far a path.
2) nowhere in my post did I use the word pretend, you have inserted that on your own and paraphrased me unfairly. I said people can CHOOSE to be whatever they want to be in the NOW, but that doesn't erase what they were before. We are each the product of our entire lives / personal experiences. The struggles that your daughter's friend encountered in youth will help them become more secure as a person now. I am glad they made the choice to be whatever they wanted to be, no one should be held down / kept from the freedom to pursue who they wish to become. But that doesn't mean that the kid stopped being a genetic female. I believe the cause of so much heated debate is over the blurry and often misunderstood distinctions between genes, gender, and personality. People are definitely more fluid than a binary classification system, but when it comes to the genetic level and a reproductive standpoint, we're either in column A or we're in column B. Maybe one day we will have the ability to fully remap a person on the genetic level, such that they can grow/evolve the correct fully-functional organs for the gender they desire, but until that day happens, I'll still consider a T-woman a Female-identifying-male (and no judgment there) and a T-man a male-identifying-female.
3) I never said that the trans-folk need to be outed publicly (once again you have inserted words), but if they are having a long-term relationship with a partner where procreation is DESIRED, don't you think that person has a right to know rather than just believe something is broken in him/herself or their partner? Isn't that deception reprehensible in your moral framework?
4) Lastly for your counter-query about people that cheat on their SOs with SPs: this is of course "morally" wrong and a violation of trust. It keeps some people up at night, others have no qualms and sleep like babies. I would say the only thing to make the act of adultery at least slightly less reprehensible is to keep yourself and your partner protected, and that means greatly restricting all risky activities and getting yourself tested regularly. If you don't have the stones to at least do that much for your partner, you're truly the worst should you catch something and inadvertently bring it home. We have laws that if you knowingly have STIs and DON'T inform your partner(s), there are serious legal consequences, and I agree with those. It's why after my last sexual temptation crisis last year I got myself re-tested, luckily came out clean and thereafter renounced all SP activities outside of a HJ with no fluids. Has hobbying become far less "fun"? Sure, but it's the best balance I could strike between my unmet needs and my SO's rights. At least I can sleep at night now.
I don't condone rape, I don't condone sexual assault, and I don't condone violence. I support the ideals of the MeToo & Time's Up movements despite having issues with the social media lynch mob mentality. I hope one day we have a truly egalitarian and free society for all people.
And with that said, good lady, I bid you good day.
You completely misunderstood my tone and for that, I apologize. I will try to clarify your points made. Please take them lightheartedly, as that is how it is intended. This is just an enjoyable debate while I waste time on my week off.
1. Bringing up the legal aspect is an important part of the discussion. While you did not bring it up directly, I did infuse the aspect based on the original topic thread. It was not necessarily directed to you, but your input on the legal side would add to the debate nicely.
2. You did indeed refer to "pretending" in your reply.
Let me flip this another way: I am a black man but everyone has always commented on how "white" I conduct myself, both in speech and demeanor. I renounced all cultural ties and try to live a race-free existence, but I don't for a second pretend I'm a White Person (no matter how much I sometimes wished it in youth). Now if I go and get cosmetic surgery to make myself look like Brad Pitt, meet a nice white girl and settle down to start a family, would she not have a right to be PISSED when the kid pops out mixed because I didn't tell her what I originally was? (the parallel I'm trying to draw here is that there is a certain expectation with classification, and when you fudge classification things can go awry).
When you flipped things, you did indeed, maybe inadvertently, insinuate that trans would be "pretending".
However, to your point, you fail to understand the difference between genetics and sexual orientation. Which is what applies here. Both of them. Some men are all about genetics, as you appear to be. I have no qualms with that. However, you dismiss that yes, while genetically born male or female, sexually a person is either a man or woman or neither or both. Since this topic is about a sexual component, you can't simply ignore the sexual orientation factor in favour of genetics solely. That is just closing your mind.
I do admit, I need to change my wording. 100% that is my bad. I was using the word gender myself which could certainly lead one to believe I am discussing genetics. I am on a little mini-vacay, not having enough coffee, my brain is a little mush. I apologize.
3. I never said that you said anything about the outing. At least I don't think I did. However, ANYone who can't reproduce, knowingly being with someone who wants too, is wrong. But that went beyond what this topic was about. I am discussing the first night of sex. I would think, I would hope, and I would agree it is deceiving if a trans person went years without speaking up. I can't imagine how you would hide it though. There is meeting parents, and showing of old pics, discussions of pasts. The sharing should be there.
I don't have enough reference or examples of this happening. Where a couple of have been together for so long and the one partner never knew. That would take some serious purposeful deceit on the part of the trans person and that would be wrong.
4. My only cross point was again for the first time sexual encounter as the OP seemed to allude to just one encounter. I am sorry that was not clear. But if you are on a date with someone and they say in conversation that they hate escorts and would never date a man who slept with one, do you go home and bang her?
All of it moot anyway, we do basically kind of agree on most of it. I hope the rest was cleared up for you.
EDIT:
2) the only time I used the word "pretend" was in the context of a black person pretending to be white - I did not intend it to suggest that T-folk are "pretending", you paraphrased me unfairly.
And with that said, good lady, I bid you good day.
Shit, I quoted and posted before you changed it up. Never mind my point up there then. LOL
Thank you for the debate though, and a good day to you too.
