Using escorts instead of a real relationship?

lonelyvirgin said:

but they don't see me as fuckable/boyfriend material for some reason. And I'm one of the kindest guys around

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Bingo.
Treat her like shit once in a while. Don't call her for a while. If she calls you, wait a while before you call her back and act like nothing. That'll get her attention.

I'm not advocating treating women like shit. However, during the game, for some reason, women like to get treated like shit once in a while. It gives them a reason to argue. LOL Now lets see who will book me after that comment LOL Just treat her well but once in a while act like a dick. But grow some fucking balls before you do it. You're killing yourself with the rejection bullshit. If a girl rejects you, laugh it off and move on. Just think of it as she wasn't the one for ya and move on. The right woman WILL give you the time of day. She WON'T reject you. However, you'll never get there if you don't ask.
Cheers and have fun pooning.

Interesting story Ruck:

Some years back, I ordered up an unbearably hot African chick. Could not believe how beautiful she was when she walked through the door. Like Iman.

The whole first ten minutes was complaints and diva-like behaviour.

By this time, I had a fair bit of confidence, where years before, I didn't.

I politely asked her to leave. There was a pause of about three seconds, and then an incredulous look from her. The she started to stammer. Seriously.

I knew no one had ever asked her to leave.

Then she whined a bit more, testing out my resolve, basically attacking me, still not believing I was dead serious.

Then everything turned on its ear. She apologized and the session went great. I'm not an unattractive guy, but I'm still a john, and lots of girls have you reduced the minute they walk in the door. She realized that I didn't NEED to have sex with her, but chose to under the right conditions.

That lesson has served me in every aspect of my life. The more of a fucking salivating lapdog you are, the more you'll see a leash around your neck.

Respect is a two-way street.

Great post. You got it exactly. It amazes and yet doesn't surprise me to see guys acting like complete retards when trying to compliment the SPs on this board -- like salivating lapdogs, as you said. Unfortunatley most of the male popluation of North America is like that. It's completely a cultural thing. No one taught us men to be men, and this is the consequence.

Francesca22 said:

Game???

What is that anyways...

I believe that in itself may be the first problem.

I'll speak for myself when saying this, but I'm more inclined to be attracted to someone who is genuine, kind and thoughtful which is just a few among many traits I look for; then any tricks you can pull out of a bag- anyday.

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Hey Francesca -- there is game and there is Game. Good game is actually kinda like you are describing but with masculine confidence and honesty because the guy doesn't give a fuck -- he's above diminishing himself to alter his reality to please a woman, but he's genuinely interested in connecting and welcoming you to his reality. You might prefer to think of it as a dance rather than a game. Bad game is manipulative, womanizing and dishonest. When some people say Game, it's one of those two possibilities, but don't assume it's the negative one.

twentynine said:

Hey Francesca -- there is game and there is Game. Good game is actually kinda like you are describing but with masculine confidence and honesty because the guy doesn't give a fuck -- he's above diminishing himself to alter his reality to please a woman, but he's genuinely interested in connecting and welcoming you to his reality. You might prefer to think of it as a dance rather than a game. Bad game is manipulative, womanizing and dishonest. When some people say Game, it's one of those two possibilities, but don't assume it's the negative one.

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It funny, women complain all the time about guys with 'game' but they jump over each other to go after the guys who have it.

I've read many articles etc about this topic and while women act like cleopatra (queen of da nile aka denial) they LOVE guys who treat em like trash once in a while. They all pine away for guys that will treat them with respect, dignity and adoration but do they EVER go for one? Ummm NO.

Condfidence: there is confidence and there is bravado...of all the "macho/confient" guys I've known in my life, each and every one was an insecure baby at heart. Confidence isn't being able to talk for hours about nothing, it is about having something to say, and knowing when to say it. Confidence is also knowing that by shutting up and listening, you learn way more than talking. Confidence is not needing a "wingman" it is going to a club alone and having a great time, NOT needing a pack of supporters or a cheering section.

The reason I gave up on the "game" is because of this: There are rules to the "game" rule 1: In north america women make the rules and rule #2 is: women reserve the right to change any rule at any time for any reason. Another reason is that I find that women have 1,000,000 reasons not to be attracted to someone (me) and only 1 reason TO be attracted to someone (me) the trick is to find that one reason and work it to be bone. If at any time, you satisfy 999,999 of their reasons, if you miss the last one, yer (I'm)fuct. WOmen base way too much on first impressions (me lol), if you (me) don't give a great first impression? you're at the curb.

I will tell you what it's like: I've had 3 5 yr relationships, and for every one, I had to positively drag, cajole, blackmail, grab them kicking and screaming out on a date with me...each one ended up lasting (like I said) 5 yrs + and for the other 20+ non sp women I've bedded, they've all been interested in me after the first date to see me for 6 months plus.

ANyhow, LV, you have a long way to go before you give up, I compare the male/female north american dating ritual to this analogy:

Men are like farm dogs chilling out in front of the farm house. When we're young, we'll go tearing off down the dirt road after every car that comes by. If you're lucky, you snag a ferrari or a bentley. More often than not you snag an old beat up ford fairlane that needs constant attention.

Well, I'm an old farm dog that is sick and tired of chasing those dam cars down the road.....some of em will slow down so I can almost catch em then speed up to about 100 and leave me in the dust. Well, this old dog has learned his lesson, if those dam cars really want to be caught? they'll park right in front of me, turn off the ignition, throw the keys out the window and wait there until I decide whether they are worth my time...until that one pulls up? I will just have my pick of the ferraris and bentleys anytime I feel like it thank you very much....

One thing you can count on is that every guy's answer is going to be different. Every man has a different reason for choosing SPs over a "real" relationship. Get enough posts and you'll see general categories form, for example, the disillusioned, the lacking in confidence, the cost vs. reward calculator, and so on. But in the end, every guy has their own reasons for it. Does that mean that any of us are completely devoid of the desire to be in a relationship? No. But that feeling is quashed with differing levels of ease depending on the history of events that led up to ordering an escort.

This whole argument of women liking confident guys, yeah that is a big deal. But once again, it's all situational as well. Women are so much more fickle than men are, ever watch Blind Date, and see how it's almost always the guy that says "yeah I'd go on a second date", and the women that doesn't want a second date? So don't always take it as a blow to your ego that you don't get dates in your pursuits, get used to being turned down. Even the best looking and most charismatic are lucky to get a 50% batting average. I know a ton of women that would turn down Brad Pitt, yet 99% of guys you talk to would fuck the shit out of Angelina Jolie.

Some guys' stories are unfortunately sad, like the guys whos wives have passed away or those whos wives/SO have gotten so bored of sex that they never bother anymore. Personally, I have a bit of a weird story, in that I'm still 100% in love with an ex who I broke up with so she would be free to go to school half way across the world. But I can't get emotionally into anyone at all, so SPs seem the only real choice for some of the more animalistic urges.

As another poster mentioned, it's clean, direct, and clear what transaction is occurring with an SP.

Dorm201 said:

Some guys' stories are unfortunately sad, like the guys whos wives have passed away or those whos wives/SO have gotten so bored of sex that they never bother anymore. Personally, I have a bit of a weird story, in that I'm still 100% in love with an ex who I broke up with so she would be free to go to school half way across the world. But I can't get emotionally into anyone at all, so SPs seem the only real choice for some of the more animalistic urges.

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Hate to break an even sadder kind of hypothetical story, but there's also the matter of guys who might be, say, childhood abuse survivors--the kind of background that can cripple one's "conventional" sexuality. Thus for them, paid transactions might be the "safest" bet.

Lonelyvirgin makes the mistake common among all greenhorns - he places every prospective mate up on a pedestal. She's not a rarefied being; she's flesh and blood and almost as horny as you are.

No matter how frustrated you get, you have to continuously step up to the plate. Learn to hit those off-speed pitches you keep wiffing on; practice develops attraction. Eventually that "prospective mate" will be at eye level where she belongs. Procurring an SP at this point in your life may be a detriment to your ability to deal with women - if you love the sex that pedestal may become a cathedral.

When dealing with women; develop a thick skin and your inner George Costanza will become Tony Soprano.

I use escorts exclusively for a variety of reasons:

1) I'm too busy for a real relationship. I work continuously, so I'd be lucky if I had one evening a week to spend with her.

2) Time. There are just not enough hours in a day, or so it seems. Seeing an escort takes up only an hour or two, which is good, since my time is valuable.

3) No hassles. Not like a real relationship, which can be a royal pain in the ass.

4) No emotional attatchment. Developing feelings for someone you're in a relationship with will only come back to crush you in the end. Trust me, I've been there.

5) Honesty. Along the same lines as #4, you know exactly what you're getting and what to expect. No surprises; business is business after all. I was seeing a lady exclusively for the past 9 months. She called me from Montreal the other day to tell me that she is now no longer going to be offering services. While I would have liked the arrangement to continue, it does not affect me negatively, and I will move on and sample some new talent - again, no emotional hang ups or bad feelings that could interfere with my day to day life in any way.

Works for me.

Excellent advice...

Von Wigglestaff said:

Lonelyvirgin makes the mistake common among all greenhorns - he places every prospective mate up on a pedestal. She`s not a rarefied being; she`s flesh and blood and almost as horny as you are.

No matter how frustrated you get, you have to continuously step up to the plate. Learn to hit those off-speed pitches you keep wiffing on; practice develops attraction. Eventually that "prospective mate" will be at eye level where she belongs. Procurring an SP at this point in your life may be a detriment to your ability to deal with women - if you love the sex that pedestal may become a cathedral.

When dealing with women; develop a thick skin and your inner George Costanza will become Tony Soprano.

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...and essentially what I tried to say here:

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1418453#post1418453

You made have siad it better though...

drlove said:

4) No emotional attatchment. Developing feelings for someone you're in a relationship with will only come back to crush you in the end. Trust me, I've been there.

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That is the saddest comment. What's the point of life if not to share?

I mean we're on a hooker board so I won't get too misty-eyed, but isn't there a part of you that desires an emotional bond with a woman that doesn't involve money or exchange?

Dr. Phil is in. Talk to me

I...

Mao Tse Tongue said:

That is the saddest comment. What's the point of life if not to share?

I mean we're on a hooker board so I won't get too misty-eyed, but isn't there a part of you that desires an emotional bond with a woman that doesn't involve money or exchange?

Dr. Phil is in. Talk to me

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...was thinking the same thing.

I decided a LONG time ago (and recently re-confirmed) I would never get married again...if this one fails I am apparently not suited for the institution...but that doesn't mean I would not want to be in a relationship with anotehr woman.

I still can't imagine there being a greater experience for a man than to know the true love of a woman. I still periodically think about moments I have shared with each of the women who have loved me where they were clearly just giving of themselves without reservation. What could be a better confirmation and affirmation of self than to have someone say "you are worth me giving myself over to you"?

Interesting thread. I think it's dangerous to think of one being able to replace the other.

I prefer to think of relationships/wives as being Hummers expensive big and bulky, built for off road adventures but you'll never use those features once married and bad on gas.

Hobbying is like a Porche..... fast, sleek, pretty, expensive and bad on gas.

What's my point..... they are both expensive and desirable but you'd be kidding yourself to think that you could use them interchangably.

Mao Tse Tongue said:

I mean we're on a hooker board so I won't get too misty-eyed, but isn't there a part of you that desires an emotional bond with a woman that doesn't involve money or exchange?

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Sure, but the paradox often is: sex gets in the way of said "emotional bond", or even outright corrupts it...

Mao Tse Tongue said:

I also want to add that for most men, it boils down to this:

They want to fuck a beautiful woman they never could to see what it finally feels like.

Then, once they've do so, they usually can go in two directions:

1. They want more and more and more of that.

or

2. They realize that there is no connection and it's just flesh, and fuck if they don't get really conflicted. They want that ass like crazy, but there's a part of themselves--their souls actually--that feels empty and maybe a little hurt that they got what they wanted, but what they want couldn't care less about them. Plus, they might be a little ashamed at how much they distort their actual character to try and get the hot chick to like them.

At that point, many men will push those feelings under the carpet and cut off their emotional side (and maybe even start to hate women for their power over them) or they will actually see the transaction for what it can give them, and nothing more, and stay within that mode--happily floating about.

Every man will be confronted with these feelings (unless he's an ape) and will choose one of the two paths. In the long term, neither is really preferable. It's the nature of the transaction.

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Fuck man, you're quite the phsycologist / philosopher aren't you.

Like all things in life, I truly believe that moderation is the key.

Great Handle

oldmancomefastnotlikely said:

Three marriages and bankruptcy pretty well says it all!!!!
Well still enough for an encounter with, most times, a guarantee

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Great Handle - Sounds almost like a Confucius saying. Terb needs some sexual Haikus!

Mao Tse Tongue said:

That is the saddest comment. What's the point of life if not to share?

I mean we're on a hooker board so I won't get too misty-eyed, but isn't there a part of you that desires an emotional bond with a woman that doesn't involve money or exchange?

Dr. Phil is in. Talk to me

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I do have an LF, although it's purely platonic. As far as any type of real commitment goes, I'm afraid I'll get tired/bored with it after awhile. I dread the thought of being trapped. Also, as unromantic as this may sound, I refuse to enter into any long term relationship with out a cohabitation agreement or (gulp) a pre-nup.

I have discussed this issue ad nauseaum over at Merb. Basically, I strongly feel that any single man that has never experienced a real relationship, is doing a lot of harm to himself by ONLY seeing SPs. The insidious effects of only experiencing artificial relationships in fantasyland will inhibit your ability to experience a more meaningful relationship with a lady that actually cares about you.

Now, being married, I can attest that seeing SPs on a regular basis takes its toll on your mind. I am basically using this 'hobby' to avoid dealing with my marital problems head on. Nonetheless, when I walk away from hobbyland, I will be in much better shape than some single shmuck who has never known anything else but paying for sex & companionship.

GG