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"You don't gain title to your neighbor's house just because you blow it up."

Mcluhan

New member
"You don't gain title to your neighbor's house just because you blow it up."

Charley Reese nails it again. Click thru and read his link to Escobar's Baghdad up close and personal for a good on the ground reality... (and one of your favorite Dylan lyrics)

FYI: Iraq Is Not Our Country
by Charley Reese
May 8, 2007


A few reminders: Iraq is not our country. Our invasion and occupation are illegal, being in violation of both international law and our own traditions. We were lied into war. We are still being lied to. Both the Bush administration and the Democrats intend to maintain American troops in Iraq indefinitely.

The catchy little phrase "If you break it, you own it" might apply to unpurchased merchandise, but it definitely does not apply to nation-states. You don't gain title to your neighbor's house just because you blow it up. We definitely broke Iraq, but that only gives us the burden of sin. It does not entitle us to the country.

It's easy to forget that when you listen to American politicians in both parties talk about what Iraq has to do or ought to do or should do. The Iraqi government does not have to do anything we tell it, and so far it hasn't, despite promises to the contrary.

The phrase now being heard most often around Baghdad is "Iraq is finished." That's according to Pepe Escobar, a correspondent for Asia Times Online. I urgently recommend his piece "Baghdad: Up Close and Personal." He and two Iraqi journalists toured the "Red Zone," which is all of Baghdad except the heavily fortified Green Zone. Compare what he saw and heard with what you hear from the talking heads in Washington.

And, by the way, they traveled in a plain car without armored vehicles, troops and helicopters hovering overhead, which is how American big shots travel. They got shot at and arrested but otherwise survived.

We need to get out of Iraq right now. This folly has already cost us 3,300 American lives, $500 billion in tax money, 30,000 wounded, and there is not so much as a faint glow at the end of the tunnel.

The reason I say both Democrats and Republicans intend a long-term military presence is because that's what they say if you listen closely. The so-called withdrawal deadline of the Democrats stipulates some troops left in country. To quell an insurgency, if you can do it at all, usually requires about 10 years.

You can see by the casualty figures – overwhelmingly Iraqi – that we are not doing the main fighting. We lose people daily, but so far in the single digits. And we will go on losing people no matter what tactics we employ as long as we stay there while the Iraqis fight a civil war. We can, with our sick devotion to legalese, say it is not an occupation, but the Iraqis call it an occupation, and they don't like it worth a toot.

When American politicians say if we leave, there will be chaos, that's a joke. There is chaos there now. Another joke is that we can democratize the Middle East. Still another joke is the belief that we can deal with terrorism without solving the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

If I thought the people in Washington were smart enough, I'd say we intended to destroy the country and leave it in the wreck it is. I don't think they're that smart, though. I think they really believed we could waltz in, topple Saddam Hussein and waltz out. That's what happens when you let a bunch of pointy-headed intellectuals from universities and think tanks set policy. Only people who have worn muddy boots and heard the sounds of gunfire should be consulted on the issues of war and peace. Such people are darned scarce in Washington these days, even at the Pentagon.

The present policy sins daily against the Iraqi people, wastes the lives of American military people, adds to the financial burden of future generations and demonstrates to the world that we are a nation led by fools.
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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Tired arguements and iron poor logic are yours.


Why are your reaching?????????
 

Aardvark154

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enduser1 said:
As the UN report said, unfortunately, Americans are unwilling to understand that they have invaded a foreign country. The Iraqi's are destroying all American infrastructure, because in a war that is what you do. You deny the enemy any foothold of any kind. This is total war.

If the Americans remain the situation will deteriorate to the point where Iraq will be a giant Lebanon. Endless warfare, endless killing, endless destruction.

EU
Indeed a fair number of Iraqis see that a fools paradise is being created by destroying everything in sight. However, all it takes is a few thousand idiots to turn it into a giant Lebanon. Off course it's the few thousand idiots who prosper while the ordinary Iragi sees it all go down the tubes.
 

LancsLad

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Jan 15, 2004
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Its not total war until both sides play that way. let those fucktards fry in hell when the US decides to let loose a real hellstorm on the whole damned place.

THAT WILL BE TOTAL WAR
 

Mcluhan

New member
Economy of scale

LancsLad said:
Its not total war until both sides play that way. let those fucktards fry in hell when the US decides to let loose a real hellstorm on the whole damned place.

THAT WILL BE TOTAL WAR
It would be cheaper....

Terry Jones Monty Python-izes Bush's Iraq.


"What's more, with over half a million dead, it means that the world's greatest military superpower has spent a million dollars for every Iraqi killed."


Read the whole column HERE.
 

scouser1

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Dec 7, 2001
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actually it takes about 40 militias and two surrounding countries that want to destroy it to turn something into a giant Lebanon, not a good comparison at all as Lebanon as bad as the problems are is the closest thing to an Arab democracy.
 

onthebottom

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Jan 10, 2002
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We didn't keep Japan or Germany and we won't keep Iraq......

OTB
 

WoodPeckr

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May 29, 2002
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Japan or Germany didn't have all that OIL that Team 'w' prefers controlling .... so Red China doesn't end up getting it......:rolleyes:
 

Mcluhan

New member
onthebottom said:
We didn't keep Japan or Germany and we won't keep Iraq......

OTB
Before you can keep something, you have to own it. You don't own Iraq, nor did you own Japan or Germany. An occupation is not ownership.

As far as the occupation goes, that battle is lost. The sooner that reality is dealt with rationally, and the US military deployed, the better it is for everyone (all except for KBR and shareholders of course).
 
E

enduser1

scouser1 said:
actually it takes about 40 militias and two surrounding countries that want to destroy it to turn something into a giant Lebanon, not a good comparison at all as Lebanon as bad as the problems are is the closest thing to an Arab democracy.
Iran, Syria, 3 main factions: Kurd, Sunni, Shiite, plus various neighborhood Militias. Beirut had a green line Baghdad has a green zone. Its all good.

EU
 

clubber

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Aug 11, 2006
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Can those in the USA admit to making a mistake?

By taking out Saddam they created a power vacuum and a civil war. They are trying now to install a government that will do the bidding of the US government. It is not working and I think it will all backfire on the US.

People join the armed forces for various reasons, but they put their lives on the line for their country. They put their lives in the hands of the countries leaders. The people in the US armed forces are living up to their responsiblities, but the Bush government is committing a crime against these people that I really can't think of a word for. It is one of the worst crimes possible. To send these people into a war on a lie, and in a quest for personal power.
 
E

enduser1

clubber said:
People join the armed forces for various reasons, but they put their lives on the line for their country. They put their lives in the hands of the countries leaders. The people in the US armed forces are living up to their responsiblities, but the Bush government is committing a crime against these people that I really can't think of a word for. It is one of the worst crimes possible. To send these people into a war on a lie, and in a quest for personal power.
Hi,

Old Chinese saying: You can give a lousy army to a good general and he will train a good army. But a good army cannot train a lousy general.

The other observation I would make is: President Lyndon Baines Johnston came from Texas and created Vietnam. GWB is from Texas and gave the world Iraq. Bad things come in threes...........

EU
 
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