wind verus nuclear power

[pepsiman]

With all the news casts lately saying we need more power plants to supply the electricity ""for the future ""the Govt is saying we need more nuke plants.
With the risk inloved in nuclear power:: How come we are not turning to wind power generators. News last nite said one(Group or BIG group of wind generators ) in eastern canada was suppling 10% of the energy for PEI.
Is it the fact that you need so many to do the job or is it a cost thingy.
I see lots of these wind towers in Northern Ontario :BUT;;when I go south of the border I see signs saying they DO NOT WANT WIND TOWERS .
Please enliten me as I think I would rather see a bunch of wind towers instead of a nuke plant in my nieghborhood

 

[Svend]

The USA is further ahead with wind generation than Canada.

Saying that, the amount of power required means that wind simply isn't enough. We need to look at many ways of getting hydro just to keep up with current demands.

 

[oldjones]

The other option we need to use lots more of is micro-generation: itty-bitty turbines everywhere that each generate just a few kilowatts, but which ensure we're not wasting potential energy.

Think of how Toronto spends a fortune to pump water uphill from the lake hundreds of feet to reervoirs and then lets it all run downhill back to the lake w/o ever sticking a generator in the stream. And think of all the manufaturing jobs making those micro-turbines, and construction jobs installing them.

And then there's the mighty Don, with mini dams every hundred yards that just look sorta purty.

 

[shakenbake]

Wind power:
expensive on a per KW basis
not reliable (no wind = no juice)

huge
and eyesore

take a look at the one wind turbine on the CNE grounds. Think of a 1000 of them.

Now, that being said, a wind turbine on the top of large buildings would help a little.

turbine on farms, etc for co-generation would help to reduce the need for other fuels.

Nuclear, for all its detractors is currently the way to go for Ontario.

Winston;

You hit the nail on the head! That wind turbine is only about 65 kilowatts capacity, if memory serves me correctly. The one at Pickering, seen from the 401 and Liverpool Road, is about 1.8 megawatts. Pickering Nuclear statino is made up of eight nuclear generators, each with a capacity of over 500 megawatts.

The only reliable source of wind in this province is Queenspark!

shakenbake

 

[shakenbake]

...

And then there's the mighty Don, with mini dams every hundred yards that just look sorta purty.

Or, maybe not!

 

[WhOiSyOdAdDy?]

since all sewage must go downhill to the lake.. maybe we could generate electricity from that.

 

[papasmerf]

since all sewage must go downhill to the lake.. maybe we could generate electricity from that.

Sounds like you are felling a bit flushed.

 

[Fork Master]

With the amount of millionaires and billionaires in Toronto, I can't understand why there isn't an offshore wind turbine in front of Toronto. Sure it wouldn't turn as much money, because the wind isn't the highest in Canada, but if I had cash coming out of my ass like these millionaires, I'd build one just for fun and my own ego.

I'd have a lawn around the base, a place to have a campfire and a picnic, a place on the side to dock a boat. Sail chicks out there for a picnic and a bangin'

 

[Keebler Elf]

With the risk inloved in nuclear power

What risk would that be? Don't believe the environmental activist hype; nuclear power (at least in Canadian) is some of the safest in the world. Ontario has never had a death due to radiation exposure, let alone a disaster.

Wind power is great if you have enough wind turbines. And therein lies the problem. Building enough wind turbines would be so incredibly expensive that it just isn't feasible. And since electricity can't be effectively stored, a lull in the winds can have a devastating impact on electricity generation.

If you look at alternative energy sources and then you compare how much power they could produce vs. how much a single nuclear plant can produce, it's a no-brainer. Nuclear energy is the only technology we have right now that can produce what we need when we need it.

Should we invest in alternative energy sources? Absolutely. But we should also be building additional nuclear plants to carry us through until those alternative sources of energy become feasible. And don't forget, we're closing down the coal fire plants so that's a pretty big hit we'll be taking in terms of electricity production.

 

[nerdnerd]

eyesores are relative

take a look at the one wind turbine on the CNE grounds. Think of a 1000 of them.

Of course, you have to contrast that with having Pickering on your front porch.
Oh, and don't forget the nuclear waste burial ground in your backyard.
And the trucks to haul everything around.
And the increase in income tax to pay for it all.

U235 CANDU style Nuclear power, should we decide to go whole hog at it... only lasts about 75 years. By which point, the oil is definitely all gone, and we have no energy left to build the wind turbines, or replace the 401 with a train system.

We should build the wind now.
Yeah, it has problems with storage, but I have far more confidence that we will find a way to deal with that than I think we will find a way to dispose of and clean up a nuclear power plant. The economics are just not in favour of nuclear.

(Having said that, if you asked me if we should build some nukes in manitoba, where the mines are, in order to make power to make concrete to make wind turbines, I would have a more complicated answer).

 

[nerdnerd]

Should we invest in alternative energy sources? Absolutely. But we should also be building additional nuclear plants to carry us through until those alternative sources of

After 60 years of investing in nuclear (including $1B to refit Darlington. That's a lot of trips to the MP!), and 0 years investing in "Alternatives", do you think that perhaps your thinking is 30 years out of date?

The problem is that "if you build it - they will come".
Any large investment in more production will cause people to put off conservation.

 

[The Lurker]

With all the news casts lately saying we need more power plants to supply the electricity ""for the future ""the Govt is saying we need more nuke plants.
With the risk inloved in nuclear power:: How come we are not turning to wind power generators. News last nite said one(Group or BIG group of wind generators ) in eastern canada was suppling 10% of the energy for PEI.
Is it the fact that you need so many to do the job or is it a cost thingy.
I see lots of these wind towers in Northern Ontario :BUT;;when I go south of the border I see signs saying they DO NOT WANT WIND TOWERS .
Please enliten me as I think I would rather see a bunch of wind towers instead of a nuke plant in my nieghborhood

What risk exactly? While Nuclear energy has many discounted costs, yes storage is an issue, what risk? Should we be afraid of some group US/Saudis/Brits taking a bunch of fuel rods and strapping them to some explosives? Really? Why?

It all goes back to the issue and reasons for terrorism. Just like fascism, terrorism is all about the smaller group controlling the larger. In fact Ferris Burlier said it right. "Ism's as a rule are bad!" They CANNOT kill us or hurt us all. They just, plain cannot.

Even if they collected every contaminated needle in the free word and strapped it to the Halifax cargo ship, they could only kill thousands. Ah folks, there are Six, plus BILLIONS of us. If we really wanted to, we could make these fuckers SO happy they would kill themselves.

You have to address the reasons for their unhappiness, not complain about bad engineering of a nuclear plant. Designs continue to evolve and some of the high temp, pebble systems hold great promise for the Hydrogen / Hydrocarbon industries.

Think of it this way. Popping a dirty bomb in NY is every bit as bad as losing Louisiana or Texas oil distilleries to the F***** wind...

But that's just me. Check out your local Wikkipedia.

 

[shakenbake]

...

U235 CANDU style Nuclear power, should we decide to go whole hog at it... only lasts about 75 years. By which point, the oil is definitely all gone, and we have no energy left to build the wind turbines, or replace the 401 with a train system.

...


(Having said that, if you asked me if we should build some nukes in manitoba, where the mines are, in order to make power to make concrete to make wind turbines, I would have a more complicated answer).

Like, duh, CANDU runs on natural uranuim, NOT U235.

Also, the mines are in Saskatchewan, where Cameco has its headquarters. I worked for them in a past life.

 

[shakenbake]

After 60 years of investing in nuclear (including $1B to refit Darlington. That's a lot of trips to the MP!), and 0 years investing in "Alternatives", do you think that perhaps your thinking is 30 years out of date?

.........

I guess that (photovoltaics and) the hydrogen economy don't count? Tell that to Ballard Power who has been in business for maybe more than 20 years, or Stuart Energy, for almost 70 years.

Please get your facts straight before making a statement, that's all I ask.

 

[The Lurker]

Don't forgete that coal bunning releases more radiation than a nu-cl-ear plant too!

Of course I'd rather get a hummer, than drive one...

 

[benn]

It's time that really start looking at the future, one of which is fusion energy

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Which will come into its own about the same time as transwarp stardrives become commercially viable.

*looks nervously down his basement stairs*

That soon?

 

[sizematters]

Which will come into its own about the same time as transwarp stardrives become commercially viable.

I think Ballard Power is working on that.

 

[Meister]

Hi,

If wind power was the answer the Dutch Empire 1620-1700 would still dominate the world. Wind mills have been around for 1000's of years. They work. But not well enough.

Yeah, but those wooden clunkers were not meant to power an office building let alone generate electricity.

And who says it has to be as efficient as burning the hell out of fossil fuels? Clean energy has a trade off.

 

[mikeinthebush]

Build the nuke plant's in the boonies,Northern Ontario?Quebec? Manitoba?

Build a big island in the St. Lawerance, the Great Lake's?and put a couple nuke plant's on them.

That's how Montreal found land for the Olympic's.

Super jail's? don't need'em, build portable's on Baffin Island. If you decide to run watch out for polar bear's,or the bug's,or starving to death.