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Will Bush Bomb Iran

Will Bush Bomb Iran

  • probably Yes - that's the plan and they intend to execute

    Votes: 99 53.8%
  • Probably No - the plan is a negotiating tactic

    Votes: 85 46.2%

  • Total voters
    184

Mcluhan

New member
http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=9736

September 23, 2006
As Crazy as It Sounds
by Charley Reese

As crazy as it sounds, President George Bush might be planning to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities.

There are two currents of speculation flowing through Washington these days. One current says that the Bush administration is planning the bombing campaign, but only as a bluff to force the Iranians to negotiate. The other current says that the Bush administration actually plans to launch the attack.

Unfortunately, I think the latter is the accurate one. So far, the Bush administration has eerily followed the exact same pattern it used to justify the attack against Iraq. Bush keeps insisting, without a shred of evidence, that Iran, despite its denials, is seeking nuclear weapons. Remember how he kept insisting that Iraq had huge stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction?

Secondly, he has set up the diplomatic efforts to fail. By demanding that Iran suspend its uranium-enrichment program as a precondition for talks, he guarantees, of course, that Iran will reject that offer. It's like a wife telling her husband, "Sign over the house, the car and half your income, and then we'll talk about a divorce settlement."

Thirdly, Bush knows Russia and China will veto any U.N. effort to impose sanctions. Therefore, one night he will go on national television and say we tried diplomacy and that failed, we tried the U.N. and that failed, so I'm ordering American forces to take out Iran's nuclear-weapons facilities.

The scariest part of this scenario is that Bush and his war hawks seem to believe that the Iranian people will blame their own government for the American attack, overthrow it and install a new government that will be eager to jump into bed with the U.S and Israel. That's really nuts.

It's the old "They will greet us with flowers and sweets and dancing in the streets" routine. You would think that 2,600 dead and 20,000 wounded Americans in Iraq would have convinced even the most ideologically blinded that you can't win hearts and minds by bombing bodies to bits. The Iranian people will do what human beings always do – rally around their government and prepare to fight the foreign invader. It will end all hope of a democratic reform movement.

There is no question that we have the air power to substantially damage Iran's nuclear facilities, even though they are dispersed and some are underground. Iran doesn't have much of an air force, and I doubt its air defense system would last more than a day. We will kill a lot of civilians in the process.

What would be the consequences? I don't know exactly, but I believe they would be very bad for us. According to polls, most of the world already thinks we're a greater threat to world peace than either Iran or North Korea. I think it would reduce our influence in Europe and in other parts of the world to zero.

The price of oil would certainly hit $100 or more a barrel, and that would have a devastating impact on the world economy.

Iran would retaliate as best it can. It would launch its missiles at U.S. forces in the region, and probably at Tel Aviv and Haifa in Israel. How effective they would be remains to be seen. Ernie Hemingway once quipped that the outcome of war is always uncertain unless, of course, you've decided to go to war against Romania. Iran might attack the oil facilities in the Arab countries or try to sink a tanker in the Straits of Hormuz. Shi'ites in Iraq might attack U.S. forces.

Pakistan might break relations with us or see its government overthrown. I imagine the Muslim world would see an attack on Iran as "the last straw." Syria might figure it was next and launch against Israel. Ditto North Korea. If you were on Bush's "axis of evil" list and you'd seen two countries also on the list pre-emptively attacked, what would you think?

The irony of it all is that despite the smear talk of Hitlers in the Middle East, the leader whose thinking process most resembles Hitler's is our own president. Like Hitler, Bush's ideological beliefs have blinded him to reality, and like Hitler, he seems impervious to advice that conflicts with his beliefs. There the resemblance ends, of course, but it is bad enough. Hitler learned that he couldn't win a two-front war, and Bush will learn that he can't democratize the Middle East with bombs and bullets.
 

thedon

Banned
Oct 28, 2004
75
0
0
IMO if the US invades Iran, Iran is going to kill Bush. Thats the only way Iran can win this Ilegal invasion and save there country.
 

Mcluhan

New member
More resources: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rogers/rogers74.html

Persia is one of the oldest civilizations in the world. Persia was once one of the largest empires the world has ever seen.

Even though Persia has lost battles, it has never been conquered even once in over 3,000 years.

Iran has more than three times the population of Iraq, and 63% of that population is under 31 years old.

Iran is four times larger than Iraq.

Iran's economy was twelve times the size of Iraq's, as of 2003.

Total casualties during the Iran-Iraq war of 1979 to 1988, estimates range from 800,000 to 1 million dead, at least 2 million wounded, and more than 80,000 taken prisoner. That there were approximately 2.5 million who became refugees and whose cities were destroyed.

The financial cost is estimated at a minimum of $200 billion. According to some estimates, Iran lost about one million soldiers, and was still not defeated.
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
10,025
0
0
I will give the Bush Team the benefit of the doubt that even they wouldn't be so spectacularly stupid as to try something like this.
 

mrpolarbear

New member
Sep 10, 2001
1,093
0
0
69
chicago
If he decides to do it it will be on the monday before the second tueday of november:eek:
 

Mcluhan

New member
Asterix said:
I will give the Bush Team the benefit of the doubt that even they wouldn't be so spectacularly stupid as to try something like this.
The US put in the Shaw. The people took him out. The US aggressively supplied weapons for the war that resulted in the above 1,000,000 deaths. A war that today looks even more like a proxy war than it did back then. I think you have to ask the question, where is the red line when it comes to regime change according to the geopolitical doctrine that Kissinger, Nixon, Reagan and the boys are following. I don’t think bombing Iran with nukes is it, in GWB’s mind. There’s nothing new here, it’s just bigger.

On the trigger is a small-minded quack with a lot of strange ideas, such as being history’s next Winston Churchill. The Pentagon wants a war because they have the long view – containing China and controlling oil is the key. If you accept those realities, ol’ Charlie’s point of view is not too extraordinary.

I know, it’s hard but try to put yourself behind the myopic view of a crazy obsessed man. Truthfully, do you really think Cheney, Rumsfeld and George have limits?

The three Stooges of the Apocolypse.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,770
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
Present Steps being Taken for War with Iran

Team 'w' war-mongering neocons fear upcoming November election losses will lead to the impeachment of Dubya and prison or worse for them.
They feel like a 'cornered rat' ....anyone knows a rat is most dangerous when cornered!
War with Iran is looked on as an escape from their 'cornered rat' status.

Orders have gone out to US military forces as they are being repositioned for upcoming attacks/war on Iran, at this very moment.

Here are some reports on the neoncons war preparations:

On Constitution Day: Talk of Impeachment and Rumors of War
by DAVE LINDORF - baltimorechronicle.com


War Signals? Dave Lindorff
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061009/lindorff


The Bushes & the Truth About Iran
LOST HISTORY REVISITED: by ROBERT PARRY

http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2006/092106PARRY.html

An excellent piece on the historical background leading up to all this.
 

Papi Chulo

Banned Permanently
Jan 30, 2006
2,556
0
0
Iran has been asking to be bobmed for the last year.. and they deserve it

However it will be Isreal that starts the bombing
 

Mcluhan

New member
Excerpt from: Crisis Is Upon Us
by Paul Craig Roberts, September 25, 2006

http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=9743

"Perhaps the answer is that what appears as irrationality to experts is rationality to neoconservatives. Neocons seek maximum chaos and instability in the Middle East in order to justify long-term U.S. occupation of the region. Following this line of thought, neocons would regard the loss of a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf as a way to solidify public support for the war. American anger at the Iranians could even result in support for a military draft in order to win "the war on terror."

The Bush administration could bring Congress around by announcing a "Gulf of Tonkin" incident or by orchestrating a "terrorist attack." However, this is unnecessary as Bush has prepared the ground for bypassing Congress with his propagandistic allegations that Iran, by arming Iraqi insurgents, sponsoring terrorism, and building nuclear weapons, is a major part of the ongoing "war against terrorism." Now that Iran is blamed for rising violence in Iraq, an attack on Iran follows as a matter of course. All Bush has to do is to continue with his lies in order to bring the American public to a new war hysteria."
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,985
5,589
113
Is there a Goebbels Award for well executed propaganda?
 

Mcluhan

New member
What's at stake: excerpt from:
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/hirsch.php?articleid=9255

Nuking Iran Is Not Off the Table
by Jorge Hirsch, July 6, 2006

Will We Survive?

America needs to constrain the authority of the president to order nuclear strikes against non-nuclear states. Immediately. Change the law, change the Constitution. Congress is derelict in its responsibility by continuing to ignore this imminent threat.

The United Nations needs to address the first-use of nuclear weapons, and the use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states. Immediately.

The last use of nuclear weapons needs to remain Nagasaki, so that the world's nuclear nations will be "deterred" from using nuclear weapons ever again. The day the last use of nuclear weapons becomes Natanz, humanity will be irremediably doomed. And the greatest democracy in the world will be responsible.
 

frasier

Insert comments here!!
Jul 19, 2006
3,377
0
0
In your head
Using the "antiwar website" as a source on bombing Iran or not..is like quoting the RNC website on the values of socialism...:rolleyes:
 

Mcluhan

New member
frasier said:
Using the "antiwar website" as a source on bombing Iran or not..is like quoting the RNC website on the values of socialism...:rolleyes:
The issue is the bombing of Iran, not a website opposed to war that serves as a central source of links to like-minded third party material.

Your quite welcome to start your own thread and look for the equivilent open discussion and counter-point-of-view on such sites as http://www.newamericancentury.org/
 

Mcluhan

New member
enduser1 said:
Total nonsense.

Alexander ripped through there like a hot knife through butter. In fact his conquest of Persia funded his invasion of everybody else. In WW2 the Americans and the British overthrew the Nazi friendly government and installed the Shah.
Yes, Iran has been invaded a number of times in 3,000 years. I assume what the writer meant was that the civilization is the longest running, having persisted surviving the many and various attempts to conquor. There is a helpful chart here: History of Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iran


History of Iran

Iran is one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations. The history of Iran covers thousands of years, from the ancient civilization on the Iranian plateau, Mannaeans civilization in Azerbaijan, Shahr-i Sokhta (Burned City) in Zabol and ancient Kingdom of Jiroft followed by the kingdom of Elam and the Achaemenid, the Parthian, the Sassanian and following Empires to the modern Islamic Republic of Iran.

Empires of Persia

* Proto-Elamite civilization (3200–2700 BCE)
* Jiroft civilization (3000–5th c. BCE)
* Elamite dynasties (2700–539 BCE)
* Kingdom of Mannai (10th–7th c. BCE)
* Median Empire (728–550 BCE)
* Achaemenid Empire (648–330 BCE)
* Seleucid Empire (330–150 BCE)
* Parthian Empire (250 BCE– 226 CE)
* Sassanid Dynasty (226–650)
* Islamic conquest (637–651)
* Tahirid dynasty (821–873)
* Alavid dynasty (864–928)
* Saffarid dynasty (861–1003)
* Samanid dynasty (875–999)
* Ziyarid dynasty (928–1043)
* Buwayhid dynasty (934–1055)
* Ghaznavid Empire (963–1187)
* Ghori dynasty (1149–1212)
* Seljukid Empire (1037–1194)
* Khwarezmid dynasty (1077–1231)
* Ilkhanate (1256–1353)
* Muzaffarid dynasty (1314–1393)
* Chupanid dyansty (1337–1357)
* Jalayerid dynasty (1339–1432)
* Timurid Empire (1370–1506)
* Qara Qoyunlu Turcomans (1407–1468)
* Aq Qoyunlu Turcomans (1378–1508)
* Safavid Empire (1501–1722/1736)
* Hotaki Ghilzai dynasty (1722–1729)
* Afsharid dynasty (1736–1802)
* Zand dynasty (1750–1794)
* Qajar dynasty (1781–1925)
* Pahlavi dynasty (1925–1979)
* Iranian Revolution (1979)
* Provisional Government (1979–1980)
* Islamic Republic of Iran (1980–Present)
 

frasier

Insert comments here!!
Jul 19, 2006
3,377
0
0
In your head
Mcluhan said:
The issue is the bombing of Iran, not a website opposed to war that serves as a central source of links to like-minded third party material.

Your quite welcome to start your own thread and look for the equivilent open discussion and counter-point-of-view on such sites as http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Unless i am missing your point her. You are using the antiwar website as the basis for your argument or do you?

Like any other dubious sites on the web, it has the right to it's own opinion. My point is, that given their political agenda, they hardly gave it an objective look. Most of their arguments are based on piecing together truth with pieces of halftruths and conmbine it with some specualtions. A dangerous mix indeed.
 
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