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What does OBL want?

Truncador

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langeweile said:
I challenge anybody on this board to come up with a point, that could be negotiated.
I predict that this will be one of the shortest threads in the history of the internet.
 

blitz

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Granted that there is a lot of blah, blah, blah but it's pretty straightforward.

The US should stop it's attempts at dominance and remove it's military presence and bases from many countries, they are not welcome or needed. They are there to dick measure against the rest of the planet and give cause for the war machine that drives their economy. Simple.

The US needs to change its decades long foreign policy. Simple.

I realize that Israel as it exists today causes strife and I don't believe that Jews should be pushed into the ocean. Many countries gave Israel the right to exist and it should. That small part of the world will forever be in dispute so diplomacy on BOTH sides will inch us along forever. Not simple.

Read his demented quotes and ramblings but all he is stating is what most Muslims have been asking for decades. Step off! Simple.
 
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Asterix

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langeweile said:
In case we lost sight on who we are fighting.
Are we still fighting OBL? Who knew? Doing it via Iraq is kind of a strange way of going about it. Did George ever fully retract that press conference statement, when he said he didn't know where OBL was and that he truly wasn't reallly concerned about him? I do seem to recall that in the debates he claimed he couldn't remember even saying it. I've got a link to the tape if he needs a refresher.
 

langeweile

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blitz said:
Granted that there is a lot of blah, blah, blah but it's pretty straightforward.

The US should stop it's attempts at dominance and remove it's military presence and bases from many countries, they are not welcome or needed. They are there to dick measure against the rest of the planet and give cause for the war machine that drives their economy. Simple.

The US needs to change its decades long foreign policy. Simple.

I realize that Israel as it exists today causes strife and I don't believe that Jews should be pushed into the ocean. Many countries gave Israel the right to exist and it should. That small part of the world will forever be in dispute so diplomacy on BOTH sides will inch us along forever. Not simple.

Read his demented quotes and ramblings but all he is stating is what most Muslims have been asking for decades. Step off! Simple.
(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.
Thi sound s a lot like the call to the crusades. Replace islam with christianity..

You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator.
you lefties better start worrying..screw you seperation of church and state..back to prayers in school..no more divorces..no more abortions...no more same sex marriage...

Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment
Priceless

v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich
WHAT no more Vegas??

(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.
No more terb..no more SP's??

Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention
Need i say more??

i agree with your statement that it is time for the USA to leave, but do you truly believe that this will end this?
Some of his points are very anti freedom and very anti religion, unless it's Islam. We as a society can't let this happen. This is a step back to the middle ages..
 

Asterix

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On the national news tonight, a closing story on people throughout the US and Britain who are forming organizations to demonstrate through the internet, community displays, etc. that they are not willing to change their everday lives and be intimidated by terrorists. All well and good, but I don't think that's what Osama expects or even wants. What Osama wants is for the West to waste as much time and money as possible to thwart any potential attack, real or imagined. In this, he is succeeding.
 

blitz

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langeweile said:
This sounds a lot like the call to the crusades. Replace islam with christianity..

Or vice versa, all zealots should maybe relax a bit.

Here's a start, pull out.

"You lefties better start worrying..screw you seperation of church and state..back to prayers in school..no more divorces..no more abortions...no more same sex marriage..."

Ah, religous ideals...sounds familiar.


"Priceless"

I think OBL hit the irony button called Bush

"WHAT no more Vegas??"

Loaded dice need to be exposed


"No more terb..no more SP's??"

AIDS what? SP's what? Both you and OBL are waaay off base.

"Need i say more??"

Feel free to say much much more but understand that many, not all, of the stout opinions that you hold are also held in alternative by many many people.

"I agree with your statement that it is time for the USA to leave, but do you truly believe that this will end this?
Some of his points are very anti freedom and very anti religion, unless it's Islam. We as a society can't let this happen. This is a step back to the middle ages..
"

The step back to the middle ages is us as a population allowing this "crusading" garbage to continue.

Are you and your Islamic counterpart of hate so weak to think that some external power or government could erase your passion and beliefs?

Neither of you are strong and both of you choose to be bullies.
 

langeweile

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Blitz,

I wish for nothing more than this garbage to stop, but not at the price OBL wants me to pay.
Extreme religous beliefs and dogmas, no matter which one, are dangerous and need to be stopped.
Like most people I like to live my life in peace. Unfortunately in religous disputes, there is no right or wrong, it's a matter of belief.

The underlying characteristic of all spiritual law is the one of acceptance and tolerance. ANY religion that violates those spiritual laws is at direct odds with the premise of spirtuality and belief.
Unfortunately this conflicts has begun way before your and my time. Each sides is claiming moral superiority,while violating the basic principle of their chosen system of belief. My fear is that unless one side is willing to "turn the other cheek" it will never end.
We can spend hours debating on when it started or who started it, without ever coming to a final result.
If we don't practice acceptance, tolerance, forgiveness and love, the bloodshed will go on forever. Oddly enough these are the virtues that both sides belief systems claim to live by.
 

*d*

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langeweile said:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

In case we lost sight on who we are fighting.
I challenge anybody on this board to come up with a point, that could be negotiated. Unless of course you want a radical islam country?
Politics, not religion drives terrorism.(from today's Toronto Star)
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...496&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795
What follows are excerpts of an interview with the Aga Khan, the hereditary imam of Shiite Ismaili Muslims, conducted by Radio Deutsche Welle, Germany's international broadcaster.

"Q: Your majesty, the world is shocked by terrorist attacks that are carried out by people who claim to be fighting for Islam. You, as a prominent Muslim leader, have claimed that Islam is a religion of peace. Does that mean that Islam has two faces?

Aga Khan: No, I don't think so. For one thing, you have to think about the fact that this just represents a very, very small minority of the world's Muslim population. Also, these people are primarily driven by political and not religious motives. It would be wrong to consider them representative of Islam. The Western world has to take a close look to see which forces are in play in order to differentiate between belief and things that have nothing to do with belief. We as Muslims could also ask the same things: like what's happening in Northern Ireland. If I as a Muslim came to you and were to say: What's happening in Northern Ireland reflects Catholic and Protestant beliefs, then you would say: You're uneducated.

Q: Tolerance and pluralism are at the top of your agenda for improving conditions for all humans. Is that because your own followers, the Ismaili Muslims, are discriminated against?

A: In every religion there are differences of opinion about the interpretation of the religion. But I don't think the Ismailis are still discriminated against today. To the contrary, we're building bridges to the representatives of other directions of Islam. Because the idea of pluralism is tightly anchored in Islam. Of course there are many different interpretations. But the differences in interpretation is not a problem in Islam. I would even go so far as to say that Islam is a very broad religion. There's a very famous line by Allah in the Qur'an: "I have created you from one soul." With that line, he meant all of humanity.

Q: Since the end of 2001, the West has been seeking a dialogue with the Muslim world. But more and more people are frustrated because no real answer is coming from the Muslim side. They're waiting for the voices of moderate Muslims who will vocally and clearly speak out against terrorism in the name of Islam. Why aren't we hearing these voices?

A: I think you can hear these voices more often now. We have to consider that there are forces inside the Islamic world that do not promote freedom of opinion, especially in regards to religion.

Q: Is there hope that we can some day stop terrorism?

A: Firstly, I'd say this: Let's remedy the causes of terrorism. Generally, that's political frustration and not a question of religion. The situation in the Middle East was not created by Islamic beliefs. The situation in Kashmir was not created by Islamic belief. The situation in Afghanistan was not created by Islamic beliefs. So we have to identify the core of the problem, and that is political in nature. And when we know the real causes of what drives people to desperation, then we can get a grasp on it."
 

Truncador

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So we are to believe that some Moslems really aren't Moslems at all, even though they've proven themselves willing to sacrifice anything- including their own lives- in order to defend the Moslem faith and prove what devout Moslems they are. Reminds me of how Marxists, once they could no longer simply brush off reports of Stalin's atrocities as bourgeois fabrications, claimed that Stalinism was a "deviation" that had nothing to do with true Communism :rolleyes: If you can't make an ugly face of your pet cause disappear, you can always define it out of existence by fiat. I'll have to try this myself sometime.
 

*d*

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Truncador said:
So we are to believe that some Moslems really aren't Moslems at all, even though they've proven themselves willing to sacrifice anything- including their own lives- in order to defend the Moslem faith and prove what devout Moslems they are. Reminds me of how Marxists, once they could no longer simply brush off reports of Stalin's atrocities as bourgeois fabrications, claimed that Stalinism was a "deviation" that had nothing to do with true Communism. If you can't make an ugly face of your pet cause disappear, you can always define it out of existence by fiat. I'll have to try this myself sometime.
I would agree that fanaticism and strapping a bomb to your chest is not the practise of a true Muslim. My question to you is, how do you make the ugly face of fascism/synarchism disappear from your posts? ;)
 

WoodPeckr

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*d* said:
I would agree that fanaticism and strapping a bomb to your chest is not the practise of a true Muslim. My question to you is, how do you make the ugly face of fascism/synarchism disappear from your posts? ;)
Good point because in the grand scheme of things both attitudes are identical and result in the same death & destruction, nothing else.
 

Truncador

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*d* said:
I would agree that fanaticism and strapping a bomb to your chest is not the practise of a true Muslim. My question to you is, how do you make the ugly face of fascism/synarchism disappear from your posts? ;)
Every true Synarchist (except for the apostates and deviationists, i.e. everyone but me) knows that the best way to conceal one's beliefs is to abandon them altogether, ensuring that no evidence of those beliefs will ever come to light accidentally. Thus the great esoteric mystery of true Synarchism is that to be a true Synarchist one must renounce Synarchism.
 

Asterix

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Truncador said:
Thus the great esoteric mystery of true Synarchism is that to be a true Synarchist one must renounce Synarchism.
Yeah, the anarchists have the same problem. Hard to organize when your main intent is to tear down organized society.
 

*d*

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Truncador said:
Every true Synarchist (except for the apostates and deviationists, i.e. everyone but me) knows that the best way to conceal one's beliefs is to abandon them altogether, ensuring that no evidence of those beliefs will ever come to light accidentally. Thus the great esoteric mystery of true Synarchism is that to be a true Synarchist one must renounce Synarchism.
True Synarchists must renounce Synarchism --Wow! Sounds like something from the book, 'the Da Vinci Code' where a secret society must hide themselves and the true nature of christianity from the world until it's good and ready. :) I suggest you add some hidden meanings and encryptions in your posts, just like the book, to make it more interesting for us readers with paranoid tendencies.
 

Truncador

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The Deep Mysteries of Synarchism Revealed

*d* said:
True Synarchists must renounce Synarchism --Wow! Sounds like something from the book, 'the Da Vinci Code' where a secret society must hide themselves and the true nature of christianity from the world until it's good and ready. :) I suggest you add some hidden meanings and encryptions in your posts, just like the book, to make it more interesting for us readers with paranoid tendencies.
Oh, there's plenty- indeed, an infinity- of hidden meanings in my posts. The secret, which must never be revealed, is that they are encrypted at random. There are two chief keys for uncovering the esoteric meanings:

1) key of the ellipse:


Truncador said:
we are...to sacrifice anything...to defend...Stalin's atrocities...Stalinism was...true Communism...try [it]...sometime.
2) key of the bold cap's:



Every true SynarcHist (except for the Apostates and devIationists, i.e. everyone but me) knows that the best way to conceaL one's beliefS is to Abandon Them Altogether, eNsuring thAt no evideNce of Those belIefs will ever come to light accidentally. Thus the great esoteric mystery of true SynarCHism is that to be a true SynaRchIST one must renounce Synarchism
Note that the keys concern only form and not contents- for no determinate code or formula or other formal objective procedure can ever extract determinate content from randomness (except when it can, but I'll leave that aside for the moment).The random encryption method thus wholly confounds the small minds of rational people (the fools), who in their ignorant fetishism of coherency, system, truth, rules of logic, etc. can't perceive the obvious solution to the problem of extracting determinate meaning from a random and indeterminate jumble: make something up, and read it into the text.

It follows that the paranoid and mentally disorganized are often very adept at discerning the presence of Synarchist symbolism in Internet posts, restaurant placemats, flyers, and other sites- only to have their discoveries dismissed as so many more symptoms of their existing mental derangement by so-called "normal" people, who in their own mediocrity and incredible mental torpor cannot see behind superficial surface appearances. But the mental patient who claims to be able to see the whole of the Conspiracy on the back of a sugar packet proves the validity of Nietzsche's insight that madness and greatness go hand-in-hand; he has heroically cut the Gordian knot of interpretation and become a creator of meaning in a singular act of prowess that, like all truly great acts, smashes through the banality of the prison-house of "logic" with a flash of invincible thought animated by a will to seize the truth. Like any real man, he takes what he wants and leaves it to moralists and other slaves to piously denounce his impudent pride in daring to rebel against the law (and what law could possibly be more tyrannical than a law of thought- which is exactly what Western logic purports to reveal ? Our logicians and scientists make Islamic jurisprudents look like anarchists and libertines by comparison...)

It rigorously follows that not everybody can comprehend the esoteric doctrines of Synarchism, but only a tiny elect with the special grace of invincible thought and, moreover, the will to use it. Synarchism can never be taught; it gives or bestows laws at the level of its exoteric manifestations (Fascism, Communism, Islam, Christianity, Liberalism, etc. etc.), but at its esoteric core necessarily exists only as will. One can, after all, never lay down the law but from above, that is to say from a space of lawlessness; no sovereign acknowledges a law other than his own will (i.e. what is law and duty for his subjects is will and pleasure for him). There can obviously be no science of sovereign will (which by definition does not obey any scientist's dull-witted "laws"); the will to power of the Synarch can only be apprehended through an intuition given in a flash of invincible thought which, since it acknowedges no external law, is itself a species of sovereign will, and recognizes itself in the will of the Synarch. Thus, whoever dares to descend into the void of meaning that is the writing of any Synarchist and come back with something- anything- in hand has intuited the Synarch in all his eternal glory.
 

*d*

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Aug 17, 2001
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Truncador said:
Oh, there's plenty- indeed, an infinity- of hidden meanings in my posts. The secret, which must never be revealed, is that they are encrypted at random. There are two chief keys for uncovering the esoteric meanings:

1) key of the ellipse:

2) key of the bold cap's:

Note that the keys concern only form and not contents- for no determinate code or formula or other formal objective procedure can ever extract determinate content from randomness (except when it can, but I'll leave that aside for the moment).The random encryption method thus wholly confounds the small minds of rational people (the fools), who in their ignorant fetishism of coherency, system, truth, rules of logic, etc. can't perceive the obvious solution to the problem of extracting determinate meaning from a random and indeterminate jumble: make something up, and read it into the text.

It follows that the paranoid and mentally disorganized are often very adept at discerning the presence of Synarchist symbolism in Internet posts, restaurant placemats, flyers, and other sites- only to have their discoveries dismissed as so many more symptoms of their existing mental derangement by so-called "normal" people, who in their own mediocrity and incredible mental torpor cannot see behind superficial surface appearances. But the mental patient who claims to be able to see the whole of the Conspiracy on the back of a sugar packet proves the validity of Nietzsche's insight that madness and greatness go hand-in-hand; he has heroically cut the Gordian knot of interpretation and become a creator of meaning in a singular act of prowess that, like all truly great acts, smashes through the banality of the prison-house of "logic" with a flash of invincible thought animated by a will to seize the truth. Like any real man, he takes what he wants and leaves it to moralists and other slaves to piously denounce his impudent pride in daring to rebel against the law (and what law could possibly be more tyrannical than a law of thought- which is exactly what Western logic purports to reveal ? Our logicians and scientists make Islamic jurisprudents look like anarchists and libertines by comparison...)

It rigorously follows that not everybody can comprehend the esoteric doctrines of Synarchism, but only a tiny elect with the special grace of invincible thought and, moreover, the will to use it. Synarchism can never be taught; it gives or bestows laws at the level of its exoteric manifestations (Fascism, Communism, Islam, Christianity, Liberalism, etc. etc.), but at its esoteric core necessarily exists only as will. One can, after all, never lay down the law but from above, that is to say from a space of lawlessness; no sovereign acknowledges a law other than his own will (i.e. what is law and duty for his subjects is will and pleasure for him). There can obviously be no science of sovereign will (which by definition does not obey any scientist's dull-witted "laws"); the will to power of the Synarch can only be apprehended through an intuition given in a flash of invincible thought which, since it acknowedges no external law, is itself a species of sovereign will, and recognizes itself in the will of the Synarch. Thus, whoever dares to descend into the void of meaning that is the writing of any Synarchist and come back with something- anything- in hand has intuited the Synarch in all his eternal glory.
Breaking the Synarchism code.
As our western paranoid society continues to check for terrorists at every corner, we find ourselves falling for the primitive manichaean view of our leaders that this terrorist inFliction is simply a battle between gOod and evil. Many will also accept the irrational decisions of their leaders, to move away from the universal principles of toleraNce and pluralism in order to fight this battle. –believing that such contradictions of legitimate governance are worth the consequences and impositions placed upon them, if it will eradicate the threat of evil. This type of chaos mirrors the funDamental ideology behind synarchism. When mismanaged authorIties make chaotic irrational multi-directional decisions, they create irrational impositions on society. If supremacy happens to be your game, as it is with fascist/synarchist, the soul purpose of imposing irrational impositions on society is to condition them for the future imposition of imperial rule. If synarchists do in fact support Bush's irrational battle with the middle east, it's easy to see that their soul hope is to eradicate the universal principles in Islam and impose imperial rule. That's also a good description of terrorism.
 
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