Violation of French WWII Cemetary

You know I listened to all the pros & cons of the Iraqi war from the anti-American and frequently liberal left to the conservative rhetoric of Pat Buchanan or the born-again zealotry of the American president. I read the majority of the war postings on this board and really had nothing to add. But I have never, . . . never been so upset by the desecration of the Canadian WWII cemetery in Etaples, France.

There may be protests, the burning of flags and the hurling of insults. Forget the opposition of the French at the U.N Security Council. Forgive their less than honourable defense of the homeland in 1940. I find it incredibly hard not to be furious about the comments on the cenotaph.

"The graffiti . . . included anti-American slogans.
One read: "Dig up your rubbish. It's fouling our soil."
Another proclaimed support for Saddam Hussein with the words: "Saddam will win and spill your blood."

The cemetery contains the graves of 11,000 soldiers, most of them British, but there are 1,148 Canadians buried there as well. There are no U.S. graves in the cemetery."

Maybe we should remove the remains of our soldiers from a country so bereft of dignity and honour that even the simplest fool would have the brute ignorance to leave so vile a message.

I am even beginning to have a distaste for the French in Quebec. Where else in this country would they openly boo the American National anthem at the Molson Centre or treat a pee wee hockey team from Massachusetts like an invading enemy? Why has every French-Canadian Prime Minister been a limp-dick when it came to kicking someone's ass but they are ready to lick it whenever a third-world, banana republic dictator beckons? Would there have been a conscription crisis if the descendants of the French colonies had the will to aid the spineless mother nation.

Ah . . . this is beginning to read like a piece of Leninist propaganda. I will say this, if they ever catch the punks who sprayed a swastika on the cemetery monuments, I want 'em to turn the bastards over to me for two minutes! Just the time it would take to get my 80 year old grandpa out of the legion, a man that once killed men with his bare hands so these pricks could desecrate his buddies graves. FTF*FTF
 

Cardinal Fang

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Unfortuanely there are extremists on both sides of the fence. The example you provided illustrates this completely. If people are so ferverant in their positions that they can't see all else they become captives of their own minds. Lashing out in a manner that is abhorant..

...advocating violence at peace rallies..
...advocating hatred to people of a different faith group...
...and even defacing a cemetary!

Extreme views breads extreme behavior!
 

Cinema Face

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This is upsetting news.

I agree with Challenger. This is a new low for the peace movement. This should do nothing less than incense every red-blooded Canadian.
I personally don’t have anything against the French based on the individuals I’ve met, but as a nation, they’re not fit to suck the shit out of a cow’s ass. The way the country’s being run it will soon be right where it belongs, in the toilet.
However, this may not be the work of the French. Most French while they’re spineless wimps at least have a little more class than to pull some fucking sack of shit stunt like that.
From the pro-Saddam message I would suspect some Muslims might have been part of this. Some of them certainly are fanatical enough. There are millions of them living in France.
Speaking of lows in the peace movement, did everyone hear about the human shield in Iraq that begged the Iraqis to give him a gun and a uniform so he could kill the Americans? So much for peaceful demonstration.
Here’s another one. Does everyone also remember the students at Concorde university cheering on September 11th? Concorde U is in, where else, Quebec.
 

guelph

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The Challenger said:
Where else in this country would they openly boo the American National anthem at the Molson Centre or treat a pee wee hockey team from Massachusetts like an invading enemy?
Not in Canada but often in the US. Two wrongs never make a right, just remember which side of the border initates these activities. The difference is that in Canada these actions are considered wrong by the majority. Not freedom of speech.
 

papasmerf

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Re: Re: Violation of French WWII Cemetary

guelph said:
The difference is that in Canada these actions are considered wrong by the majority. Not freedom of speech.
When it is the majority present, who boo then you have seen and met the enemy. Ignorence must be eradicated. When a persons heritage outweighs their intellengence then they have surrendered to ignorence.

I am of southern Irish heritage. My want of the Britts out of Ireland, does not extend beyond British governemt policy on Ireland. While I may never set foot in Britian, while Ireland is occupied, I will never seek the distruction of the British subjects. Or refuse to fight next to a Royal soldier.
 
I know Nearlynormal that the information you are giving is factual but my question was where were the Quebecois in'39? They wouldn't fight for France or a free Europe then.

Secondly, it takes a great deal of courage to verbally assault 11 and 12 year old hockey players from the US.

I'm not condemning the Province of Quebec as being cowards but they do need to pull their heads out of their collective asses and quit being such world-class hypocrites. They hate the Americans yet their one desire in life is to migrate to Florida and wear Speedos under their beer guts on the beaches.

It is so honourable to be magnanimous and wise through giving the benefit of the doubt to those less fortunate in intelligence. I myself prefer to be thought of as a Neanderthal as I search for revenge & retribution. If the French truly feel sorry for the indiscretions at Etaples than I would suggest Chirac tape a J-Cloth on his prominent proboscis and proceed to wipe the slanderous comments off the cemetery face first.

Lastly, there are times when diplomacy is best served at the end of a gun. The French in Europe or Quebec have failed to learn this lesson in the 21st century. FTF*FTF
 
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BigGuy26

I feel sorry for those of you who are very narrow minded. Because this incident happened in France, its the fault of the French? Because some extremist students in Quebec were cheering on Sept 11, all of the Quebec population are guilty of being anti-american? Unbelievable!!!

Open up your eyes. Muslims in Ontario were targets of abuse and hate crimes after September 11, and recently the Asian community in Toronto have been receiving hate mail and death threats due to the SARS outbreak. Does that make all people in Ontario guilty? No, a certain number of bad apples in each group. They exist everywhere, in the church, the police, the schools, the government. Before the labels and stereotypes are applied, take a few moments to think about what has happened.

The French may not be popular to some of you, but buy calling them wimps, fuckers or cowards, you are guilty of hate as well.
 
S

sara@select

Fact is- it's an absolute disgrace and those responsible should be ashamed!
 

Cinema Face

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Thanx Nearlynormal.

You’re right. I shouldn’t assume that it was the French in Condordia University. It could’ve been Muslim students. I saw the news coverage on the day of September 11th but I think the story was promptly killed by the media because it was in such poor taste. I never saw it mentioned again but I hadn’t forgotten how even more sick to my stomach I felt after watching those assholes cheer.
You seem to know your history. I guess nothing’s ever black or white. If you dig through history, you’re bound to come up with something the French did right. I recall the hostage situation aboard an airplane a number of years ago in France. I don’t remember all the details but I remember that the French commandos stormed the plane and killed all the terrorists. They handled that situation well.
I still like to bash the French as much as anyone, (probably more so) but I don’t see things as absolutes unlike some other people bash the US.
 

johnhenrygalt

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As mentioned earlier, Concordia is an ENGLISH university in Montreal (yes some French students do attend). None of the nonsense which occurred at Concordia occurred at any of Université de Montréal, Université du Québec à Montréal, Université de Sherbrooke, Université Laval, Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières, Université du Québec à Chicoutimi, etc.

As for the "Quebecness" of our PM. Remember that the Liberal government was elected based on the support of 100 Liberal members from Ontario, the Quebec caucus of the Liberal party is less than 40. In the 2000 election, nowhere was support stronger for the Liberals than in Toronto. Herb Daliwali or whatever his name is, is not from Quebec. Foreign minister Graham is not from Quebec. Sure the BQ is anti-war as well, but the PM has never taken his cues on policy from the BQ.

The last time we had a Prime Minister who was pro-American, his strongest support came from Quebec and Alberta. In 1991 when I was in Ottawa, many English Canadians I knew scoffed at Mulroneys' bellicist stance.

Many French Canadian Québécois oppose THIS war. I disagree with this position, but I respect the right of my compatriots to make this wrong decision. Protest marches in Montréal have been larger than anywhere else in Canada. However, despite the larger numbers gathered, the Montreal marches have been peaceful, and the protesters have been largely well-behaved.

Oh, and to get back on topic, the defacing of the cemetaries was and is disgusting and even though it is likely the work of a couple of nuts, an apology should be issued if it hasn't been already.
 
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johnyboy

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There is always a underlying sentiment to bring such actions to the front ..let no nation hide behind the individuals..where is the outrage in Quebec or France..is that silence me thinks me hears

A nations thoughts becomes it's deeds
 

papasmerf

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One must take a moment to consider those in France who might deface and degrade. Where this cemetary in the USA guards would have been posted out of RESPECT, I know this is a foreign word to many. But the US has it for its heros. And I do not think even the staunchest LIBERAL can deny those who died at Normandy were heros.
 

johnhenrygalt

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In WWI, the vast majority of Canadian voltunteers in the Army were British born. English speaking Canadian-born volunteered in about the same proportion as French Canadians.

Moreover, Sam Hughes sent English (only) speaking protestants into Quebec to recruit for the Army. When enlisted, French Canadians were forbidden to form their own units, meaning that most of the time the French-only speaking "habitant" served under an English only speaking NCO. Moreover, at the same time Ontario passed "bill 17" wiping out long standing French language rights, leading the likes of Henri Bourassa to question why we should fight for an oppressive Empire. And then the bright lights in Borden's government wondered why the recruiting campaign in Quebec was not a success.

As for the conscription plebisite, Canadians of non-British origin from the other provinces voted as overwhelmingly against conscription as did Quebec. Also the extra votes given to those with family members serving skewed the results.

A good account of the French Canadian contribution to the Great War is the two volume set "Les poilus Québécois" by Pierre Vennet (available only in French).
 
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Cinema Face

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France at War

In today's Sun, Peter Worthington writes an interesting account of France's illustrious military history.

http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/worthington.html

It's worth a chuckle. According to him the only war the French actually won was the Revolution because they were fighting the French.

The most interesting quote is at the end, "the courage of French soldiers is legendary, but they've been badly served by their commanders and their government - something that also applies to the Canadian military today."
 
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