US Military Salute Question

[Ironhead]

I recently saw the movie 'Glory' again and it brought to mind a question which I cannot find a satisfactory answer for.

What is the purpose of the mid-chest salute ?


The scene was outdoors and I think the soldier giving the salute was holding the US flag.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Some services have modified salutes. In the case of holding a flag, the flag may be light or heavy and may require two hands to hold the flag and pole. In the US, the flag touching the ground is extreme bad luck therefore the saluting hand must be near the flagpole so that the flag does not fall. Other modified salutes or acknowledgement of higher rank is Eyes right ( or left ) so that parading soldiers will turn their heads in acknowledgement.


------------------------------------

I just googled Glory. In the time of the civil war there were many traditions carried over from the American Revolutionary War. In 1775 at the time of the American Revolutionary War, the continental army still had men that played the fife and drums and a flag carrier. The flag is the rallying point for the continental soldiers. Should the flag bearer fall, another man would pick up the flag and march towards the enemy.

 

[Ironhead]

I found a clip on YouTube it happens at around the 4:50 mark. The soldier is NOT holding a flag.

Thanks anyways Cat. I just found the video.

 

[rld]

I found a clip on YouTube it happens at around the 4:50 mark. The soldier is NOT holding a flag.

Thanks anyways Cat. I just found the video.

Sorry that Cat tried to lead you off into nowhere land.

That is not a salute. That is the end of the drill movement known as "right shoulder arms."

I am no expert on civil war drill, inspection and etiquette, but spend enough time on the drill square to recognize it.

Without research, I would suggest that the movement is used to recognize a superior officer when the right hand is occupied, but that is speculation. Some images you can google refer to it as a "rifle salute."

That should be enough to get you where you want to go.

 

[COMMANDER KIRK]

In the Canadian Armed Forces, a chest salute is given when carrying a weapon at the shoulder arms position, or if slung from the shoulder. The hand is placed palm against the chest.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Sorry that Cat tried to lead you off into nowhere land.

That is not a salute. That is the end of the drill movement known as "right shoulder arms."

I am no expert on civil war drill, inspection and etiquette, but spend enough time on the drill square to recognize it.

Without research, I would suggest that the movement is used to recognize a superior officer when the right hand is occupied, but that is speculation. Some images you can google refer to it as a "rifle salute."

That should be enough to get you where you want to go.

Rid, the hyena gang has disbanded and your leader is off to the old folks home.

All answers could be correct. This particular story takes place during the American Civil War. Therefore any answer is just a guess. This salute does not take place during a parade, in the Canadian Army. It could also be that the producers of the film got it wrong and the mid chest salute is not appropriate.

A salute can be different at different times in history and different for countries. The US is hand held horizontally to the brow, UK is hand facing the other person. The Nazis had the open hand held high diagonally.

Is your answer more correct than my answer? How is my answer not correct? All the answers here are speculations of what the mid chest salute means during the time of the American Civil War.

 

[Sexy_Dave]

From wiki, so use your best judgement.

When armed with a rifle, two methods are available when saluting. The usual method is called "present arms"; the rifle is brought to the vertical, muzzle up, in front of center of the chest with the trigger away from the body. The hands hold the stock close to the positions they would have if the rifle were being fired, though the trigger is not touched. Less formal salutes include the "order arms salute" and the "shoulder arms salutes." These are most often given by a sentry to a low-ranking superior who does not rate the full "present arms" salute. In the "order arms salute," the rifle rests on its butt by the sentry's right foot, held near the muzzle by the sentry's right hand, and does not move. The sentry brings his flattened left hand across his body and touches the rifle near its muzzle. When the rifle is being carried on the shoulder, a similar gesture is used in which the flattened free hand is brought across the body to touch the rifle near the rear of the receiver.

 

[rld]

Rid, the hyena gang has disbanded and your leader is off to the old folks home.

All answers could be correct. This particular story takes place during the American Civil War. Therefore any answer is just a guess. This salute does not take place during a parade, in the Canadian Army, not is the soldier carrying an arm or a flag. It could also be that the producers of the film got it wrong and the mid chest salute is not appropriate.

A salute can be different at different times in history and different for countries. The US is hand held horizontally to the brow, UK is hand facing the other person. The Nazis had the open hand held high diagonally.

Is your answer more correct than my answer? How is my answer not correct? All the answers here are speculations of what the mid chest salute means during the time of the American Civil War.

Did you really say "All answers could be correct."? Really?

As usual, you just made an answer up.

And the salute does take place on parade.

Feel free to research it on the interweb. You will learn that the gesture, has nothing to do with the tradition of the flag not touching the ground.

How much time have you spend the drill square again?

Do you have some evidence that the film maker got it wrong? Oddly enough, I would take their research over yours.

 

[Aardvark154]

In the "order arms salute," the rifle rests on its butt by the sentry's right foot, held near the muzzle by the sentry's right hand, and does not move. The sentry brings his flattened left hand across his body and touches the rifle near its muzzle. When the rifle is being carried on the shoulder, a similar gesture is used in which the flattened free hand is brought across the body to touch the rifle near the rear of the receiver.

In the Canadian Armed Forces, a chest salute is given when carrying a weapon at the shoulder arms position, or if slung from the shoulder. The hand is placed palm against the chest.

What they said. Further when under arms you do not render a hand salute (those such as NCOs and Enlistees/Other Ranks with "rifles" use present arms* or order arms, officers render salutes with their swords).


* Present Arms is far more common today.

 

[rld]

Rid, the hyena gang has disbanded and your leader is off to the old folks home.

All answers could be correct. This particular story takes place during the American Civil War. Therefore any answer is just a guess. This salute does not take place during a parade, in the Canadian Army, not is the soldier carrying an arm or a flag. It could also be that the producers of the film got it wrong and the mid chest salute is not appropriate.

A salute can be different at different times in history and different for countries. The US is hand held horizontally to the brow, UK is hand facing the other person. The Nazis had the open hand held high diagonally.

Is your answer more correct than my answer? How is my answer not correct? All the answers here are speculations of what the mid chest salute means during the time of the American Civil War.

I should answer that your bullshit speculation is wrong because the rifle salute has nothing to do with the holding of the flag:

Salutations according to the 1861 Revised Regulations for the Army of the United States
Article XXIX
Section: 253. It is equally the duty of non-commissioned officers and soldiers at all times and in all situations, to pay pthe proper compliments to officers of the navy and marines, and to officers of other geiments, when in uniform, as to officers of their own particular gegiments and corps.

254. Courtesy among military men is indispensable to discipline. Respect to superiors will not be confined to obedience on duty, but will be extended to all occasions. It is always the duty of the inferior to accost or to offer first the customary salutation, and of the superior to return such complimentary notice.

255. Sergeants, with swords drawn, will salute by bringing them to present -- with muskets, by bringing the left hand across the body, as to strike the musket near the right shoulder. Corporals out of the ranks and privates not sentries, will carry their muskets at a shoulder as the sergeants, and salute in like manner.

256. When a soldier without arms, or with side arms only, meets an officer, he is to raise his hand to the right side of the visor of his cap, palm to the front, elbow raised as high as the shoulder, looking at the same time in a respectful and soldier-like manner at the officer, who will return the compliment thus offered.

257. A non-commissioned officer or soldier being seated, and without particular occupation, will rise on the approach of an officer, and make the customary salutation. If standing, he will turn toward the officer for the same purpose. If the parties remain in the same place or on the same ground, shuch compliments need not be repeated.

[Typed word for word from the Regulations] The Confederate version issued in 1863, is word for word in this regard/topic of salutations (salutes).

A couple of minutes of research could have saved you the time of making something up.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

I should answer that your bullshit speculation is wrong because the rifle salute has nothing to do with the holding of the flag:



A couple of minutes of research could have saved you the time of making something up.

Sorry Rid,

Dined out, back now.

I would like to point out to you that in the clip in post 3, the soldier carrying the flag saluted in the same manner as the second soldier.

 

[Hangman]

In Canadian drill, Present Arms, Shoulder Arms and Order Arms are specific drill commands with specific movements for the formed body of troops. Because of the position of the rifle, you render a salute differently, somewhat as described above. But one would not salute from the Shoulder Arms or any other position unless ordered to do so.

However, if a soldier is walking with his rifle in the shoulder arms position, he would not move it to the present arms to pay compliments to a senior officer, he would just bring the right arm across the body with the palm flat against the bottom of the hand guard. This is done without being ordered to do so.

 

[Rockslinger]

Now that we settled the salute question, why did the federal troops in Glory attacked only to get slaughtered? Seems rather pointless.

 

[Aardvark154]

This should explain it Rockslinger http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/battery-wagner.html

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_fort_wagner.html

One thing to note in Glory is that the attack is the wrong way round i.e. in the move they are moving from left to right down the beach, in fact the attack was from the south hence they should have been moving from right to left.

 

[oldjones]

I recently saw the movie 'Glory' again and it brought to mind a question which I cannot find a satisfactory answer for.

What is the purpose of the mid-chest salute ?


The scene was outdoors and I think the soldier giving the salute was holding the US flag.

The purpose of any salute is to make an overt gesture demonstrating respect.

 

[red]

Rid, the hyena gang has disbanded and your leader is off to the old folks home.


]

hey RLD who is in your hyena gang?

 

[great bear]

hey RLD who is in your hyena gang?

Too late with the question Red, the Hyena Gang is now disbanded. By the way Red, our next secret meeting is next Tuesday at the usual location.

 

[red]

Too late with the question Red, the Hyena Gang is now disbanded. By the way Red, our next secret meeting is next Tuesday at the usual location.

i think we should have a new name committee, now that He-who-types-in-red, is on to rld

 

[great bear]

i think we should have a new name committee, now that He-who-types-in-red, is on to rld

Did Rid fink us out? Lets out the bastard and let everyone know he is also a member albeit a secret one. Cannot trust anyone these days.

 

[oldjones]

Now that we settled the salute question, why did the federal troops in Glory attacked only to get slaughtered? Seems rather pointless.

It's what soldiers do (although the hope is, as Patton said, that it'll be the other poor bastard who dies for his country). It's why so much effort goes into training them to obey orders individually and even more so as a unit.

You're right about the pointless part, but by the time soldiers are killing each other any point has been long ago lost. Once the murdering starts it's only about winning by out-killing and outsurviving your enemy.

Curiously enough the generals and pols responsible seem to manage the survival part quite handily, while self-righteously killing their own and the enemy's young hopes in quantity. If anything was more pointless than that, you'll have to convince me.