Upgrade nonsence

[Mable]

Anyone who reads this thread knows I am not a techie. I have asked some questions here and you guys have been great. I want to thank you for that. This is my attempt to start trying to provide some intelligence of my own, at least my experience.

I bought a desk top (HP Pavillion) 3 years ago. When I got it I was lead to believe that it was a good idea to get a machine that was ungradable. So, I did. Now I am trying to ungrade the ram and video card. Opps, the motherboard is not compatible. Yes I can put in more ram but only part of it will be usable. No, new video cards will not work and if you can get one, it will only run at less than half capacity. WTF.

I guess what "they" mean is that if you want to upgrade WITHIN A YEAR you should be able to. But the technology changes so fast that what works with what today will not tomorrow. "They" should make that clear at the sale. So, if I ever buy another desktop I will have no designs on an "upgradeable machine."

Speaking of HP. I will never deal with them again. Their teck support has been bad in my experience. The last few days attempting to get help has been hell.

 

[jrc0331]

You are not alone in your frustration. "Upgradable" PCs and laptops are a myth devised by product development and marketing wizards. Technology changes too fast to allow upgrades in the sense we think of them - adding the latest and greatest hardware and software to an aging architecture. By "aging" we now refer to anything more than 1 year old it seems. How sad that we are ecstatic if our PC manages to support our needs for more than that.

I started buying from Dell a number of year ago to avoid having to deal with HP. I will say most of my experience with Dell has been good. Their PCs last about as long as any other, and their tech support has been pretty good. Currently have a Dell "All in One" unit with touch screen. Had a few issues with the Ethernet connection when I first purchased it, but to their credit Dell took care of the issues and the unit has run flawlessly since. Going on 6 months now.

Good luck with your next PC - just know in my experience there is no such thing as an "upgradeable" PC.

 

[bishop]

The issue with the RAM is you need a 64bit version of windows to make use of extra RAM, 32 bit windows will only see ~3.5GB of RAM. Regardless of if you bought a custom built PC or a HP box you would still have to contend with 32 vs 64 bit windows to see more than ~3.5GB of RAM. The same key that is used for 32 bit windows is also good for 64 bit windows, so you can just call microsoft and they will tall you where to download the 64 bit version free of charge. You would need to find the 64 bit drivers for your hardware on the HP website and install them.

The issue with the video card is a combination of space limitation and power supply limitation. Again even if you got a custom built PC you would still need to contend with those issues.

Upgrading is really simple, but it takes tech common sense that unless you are into techy stuff you will not have. As with all things if you do not have the aptitude for it then you need to have the money to pay someone to do it. My advice is to bring the PC to a computer shop, I recommend NCIX because they are a large outfit but still small enough to cater to individual needs, Canada Computers is a distant 2nd choice. Just set your budget and tell the shop what you are willing to spend and ask for their reccommendations, then pay them to install it, better yet pay them a bit more and have them reinstall windows with a 64 bit version and get them to check the hp website to find all the drivers. Of course you should back up all your stuff beforehand.

This will probably take about 1hr worth of labor and a $50-$75 charge sounds about right. Hardware wise, I expect them recommend a video card around $100 and RAM around $50, you might need to get a new power supply also for around $50.

Now if you were tech savvy then you could do it all yourself and make a wiser decision on what parts you need to upgrade. My gut feeling is that the amount of RAM you have is enough, if your computer feels sluggish then just reformat the computer and reinstall windows. For the video card, I would go with a $75-$125 card like the AMD 7750/7770/7790, those cards are fairly low power usage cards so the odds are good that you do not need to change the power supply. There is the option of getting a Solid state hard drive to replace your existing magnetic hard drive, this will make your computer feel like it is on roids, but that also involves some tradeoffs which is hard to understand for the average joe.

 

[basketcase]

PC's are completely upgradable if you take a few seconds to check out what you are getting. Also helps not to deal with Dell/HP etc. The problem with them is they tend to use technology that is low end and already close to out of date when they sell it. Plenty of computer stores will allow you to buy the components you want and will put it together for you. You'd find it cheaper too.

 

[Remo]

If you still need a PC, never buy the big "brand names". They tech they put in their machines at the lower end of the price spectrum is always nearing obsolescence by the time it is hitting the shelves. That's why you get problems like the OP had. They also cheap out on parts that the average consumer doesn't know to ask about. For example, they put in power supplies that are barely adequate for the job as the machine was built. Try putting in a video card that draws a Milliamp more, or adding an additional card and the machine will likely start having issues.

If you want a good upgradeable machine, go to a local PC shop you trust and tell them your budget. If you aren't prepared to pay more than rock bottom, you won't get a machine with much room to grow.

Sorry that had to happen to the original poster. A friend of mine learned that lesson with a Dell way back in the day. When he went to upgrade he found all kinds of extra strut like objects tack welded across the unused ports in side his case. To put in an sound card, he had to use a hacksaw first.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Would this be a good argument to buy much more computer power than you need to anticipate future
technology changes?

This is precisely what I did 4 years ago by purchasing a Dell i7 desktop. Knew it was more than I needed but wanted to make sure it didn't become obsolete in a couple years. Now a bit over 4 yrs old that i7 still FLIES just like NEW! The only upgrade made so far was to add a SSD as a boot drive with Linux the main OS used now. It was easy, did it myself. SSD prices have dropped. Got a 128 SSD for 80 bucks back in Oct 2012 and will never go back to a mechanical HDD. The only problem had so far was a OEM 1TB Seagate HDD failed after 3 yrs. HDDs are the weakest link in any PC/laptop. Replaced it with a 2TB Seagate HDD which is used for storage and has Win 7 installed. All my PCs are dual boot systems even though M$ is rarely used anymore.

This i7 is very upgradeable. RAM could be doubled to 16GBs but have no need for that yet. Video card can be upgraded somewhat but if I want to go all out a bigger power supply is needed. Have no need for that either yet.




bishop summed things up excellently in post #3 above. Been using 64 bit Windows and Linux for over 6 years now. A 64 bit OS just runs better and is needed if you want to utilize more than ~3.5GB of RAM!

 

[Mable]

Thank you for all the comments. I have taken notes and will be off to a local shop on Monday. They have a reasonable reputation. I did not realize 3 years ago that the name brand manufacturers used lower end components. Leason learned; don't think I will ever by a general consumer product again. Just too much crap and all that shit they load on the unit. Can do without.

My video card is still hanging on and the guy at the shop thinks I can get a compatible replacement. I want to do it myself but here is a newbie problem: I can not get the old card out. I remove the exterior flange that holds it in place but it will not release from the motherboard. I note what looks like a white plastic lever at the junction of the card with the board but I have been unable to release it. Any hints? I had no trouble removing the ram.

 

[Intrinsic]

Thank you for all the comments. I have taken notes and will be off to a local shop on Monday. They have a reasonable reputation. I did not realize 3 years ago that the name brand manufacturers used lower end components. Leason learned; don't think I will ever by a general consumer product again. Just too much crap and all that shit they load on the unit. Can do without.

My video card is still hanging on and the guy at the shop thinks I can get a compatible replacement. I want to do it myself but here is a newbie problem: I can not get the old card out. I remove the exterior flange that holds it in place but it will not release from the motherboard. I note what looks like a white plastic lever at the junction of the card with the board but I have been unable to release it. Any hints? I had no trouble removing the ram.

Check to see on the motherboard if there isn't a plastic "spring" for lack of better word, that's keep the card in place. Some mobo's have this spring/clasp like device to ensure the card stays in place.
Maybe there's a screw possibly, but unlikely.

If not, just take it in to the computer guy and let him do it.

 

[WoodPeckr]

I want to do it myself but here is a newbie problem: I can not get the old card out. I remove the exterior flange that holds it in place but it will not release from the motherboard.

Most Video cards are both very tightly installed and hard to remove. Just make sure the retaining clasps are fully released then carefully and firmly pull the card out. Most times when you reinstall the card or put in a new card you have to firmly and forcefully bear down to fully seat it also.

 

[The Options Menu]

Would this be a good argument to buy much more computer power than you need to anticipate future
technology changes?
I think it would be easier to spend an extra few hundred now rather than have to deal with the headaches
the OP is experiencing.

You don't have to overbuy, just make sure that the motherboard supports the most recent CPU socket types and RAM types from Intel or AMD. In this case more RAM and CPU isn't necessarily what you want, but to maximize the window where it is easy to find RAM, CPUs, expansion cards, drives, etc. for your system.

Also sites like TigerDirect are great for things like molex to SATA adapters, slot conversion risers, PCI IDE cards, etc. Since I putter a lot I have a modern mobo, but I keep a lot of pci cards that will handle 'really old junk'.

Most Video cards are both very tightly installed and hard to remove. Just make sure the retaining clasps are fully released then carefully and firmly pull the card out. Most times when you reinstall the card or put in a new card you have to firmly and forcefully bear down to fully seat it also.

Also, flip your tower on it's side, and shine a desk lamp in it. Once a person gets the side off the temptation is to go right at it, have it slide around and tipping, all while not being able to see a thing. Take the extra 30 seconds, flip it on its side, and shine a light in. That 30 second investment can save you a lot of time and frustration any time you open the case.

 

[Mable]

Most Video cards are both very tightly installed and hard to remove. Just make sure the retaining clasps are fully released then carefully and firmly pull the card out. Most times when you reinstall the card or put in a new card you have to firmly and forcefully bear down to fully seat it also.

So I have found out. Just afraid of breaking something.

 

[Mable]

:Eek:

You don't have to overbuy, just make sure that the motherboard supports the most recent CPU socket types and RAM types from Intel or AMD. In this case more RAM and CPU isn't necessarily what you want, but to maximize the window where it is easy to find RAM, CPUs, expansion cards, drives, etc. for your system.

Also sites like TigerDirect are great for things like molex to SATA adapters, slot conversion risers, PCI IDE cards, etc. Since I putter a lot I have a modern mobo, but I keep a lot of pci cards that will handle 'really old junk'.



Also, flip your tower on it's side, and shine a desk lamp in it. Once a person gets the side off the temptation is to go right at it, have it slide around and tipping, all while not being able to see a thing. Take the extra 30 seconds, flip it on its side, and shine a light in. That 30 second investment can save you a lot of time and frustration any time you open the case.

So I have done this and still have problems. I am going to poke around so this leaves me with another question: with the power off and the power cord removed do I need to ground myself with some kind of static bracelet that I have been hearing about? I have been working on a tile floor with rubber soled shoes on. Am I at risk of getting fried?:Eek:

 

[bishop]

Just pull the card out, the end of the slot on the motherboard has a little tab you should push down to pull the card out but you can just say f*ck it and pull the card out, the tab will give way.

Touch some big piece of metal before you handle the computer, that should be enough. Those ground straps are just total BS. There is not enough energy in a static charge to do any harm to you, the only risk is to the computer itself, but it seems you already are pissed off at the computer already so you might as well be rough with it.

 

[spraggamuffin]

I have a Compaq Presario given to me free of charge and have been successful in doing minor upgrades.

The motherboards in most brand name computers are exclusive to the brand manufacturers and possibly tailored to their specs.

My computer has an Asus motherboard that allowedme to upgrade the video card and add some ram.

Dell is famous for pretty restrictive and unupgradeable setups, especially on their cheapest most basic models.

My favourite store for legacy computer parts is http://www.vfxweb.com/.

 

[The Options Menu]

Touch some big piece of metal before you handle the computer, that should be enough. Those ground straps are just total BS. There is not enough energy in a static charge to do any harm to you, the only risk is to the computer itself, but it seems you already are pissed off at the computer already so you might as well be rough with it.

Though there are capacitors that hold charge on various printed circuit boards. The capacitors will hold a charge for some time. Just don't complete a circuit with a butter knife or something. When I was young and dumb I wouldn't even unplug, contact with a unshielded 386 on / off button fixed that (In the age when that button was analog and had all of the power running through it, not a lower voltage modulated signal).

 

[SkyRider]

My computer has an Asus motherboard that allowedme to upgrade the video card and add some ram.

Can your video card handle 1920x1080p videos shot on your home camera?