Unethical but Necessary

[Anti]

This is probably not the ideal forum for this but since it could potentially involve an SP from this area I'm putting here.

I've been a member of this forum for a long time. I haven't posted heaps in the main board but I've PM'd a lot and been more involved with people in that regard. I mention this so I don't seem like some nub who just popped out of nowhere with a strange query.

I'll begin with the cliché (but in this case true), "I have this friend who has a problem." Someone in his family is dating someone that she shouldn't be dating. Basically, the guy is a complete ass. He has stolen from her, cheated on her, physically threatened her; he's an alcoholic and he's addicted to hard drugs. On the outside, he seems like a real charmer... behind the facade is a different story.

They've had their ups and downs and he always manages to convince her that he's got his act sorted out. My friend believes the last straw to make the girlfriend leave at this point would be another screw up on his part - especially cheating.

Here's the crux of the matter.

Can you, would you, pay an SP to set a guy up in a bar and snag photos of this guy making out with a hot girl? Is that even remotely ethical? Would you go that far to protect a family member that isn't making the right judgment call (for a number of reasons that I'm not fully aware of but he claims are skewing her decisions heavily)?

He says he'd pay $500 to $1000. I said I'd "see what I could find out."

I say he's going to get in shit. I'm not even sure that's legal. I told him to ride it out and let her sort it out herself, he doesn't think it can go on that long without something really bad happening. While they're not living together currently (they separated), he wants to nip this in the bud before the boyfriend fools her into thinking he's changed again (typical cyclical abusive relationship stuff).

So... thoughts?

 

[HOF]

Regardless of having cheater photos, abused ladies too often still return to the shit magnet. IMO, it's b/c the lady is emotionally traumatized and believes that he'll change, and she can help him. BUT, WTF do I know.

So, why not just give the jerk an irish kiss, take his ass out to the curb and give him a smiley face. Problem solved.

 

[Anti]

Regardless of having cheater photos, abused ladies too often still return to the shit magnet. IMO, it's b/c the lady is emotionally traumatized and believes that he'll change, and she can help him. BUT, WTF do I know.

So, why not just give the jerk an irish kiss, take his ass out to the curb and give him a smiley face. Problem solved.

I'm quite sure he'd love to do that. Actually, I know he would. Unfortunately I don't think he feels the risk is worth the reward.

You're right about the abusive relationship thing. Total clusterfuck.

 

[Consilio]

If this girl fits the type, showing her pictures of the guy cheating wouldn't matter.

 

[Keyra]

Well for starters, girls who are in abusive relationships normally always go back because the abusive party makes them believe that they will never find anything better. They break the abused down until there's nothing left of the person who once was.

Now then. If all it will take is a pic, I'm more than willing to be that girl - after all I HATE guys like that! If the situation doesn't get any better then either he loses his sister or he takes the next step and throws the abuser in jail!

There's my advice and my offer to take pics lol. Sorry if I sound cold-hearted, but my personal thoughts are much worse then the Irish Kiss/smiley face solution mentioned earlier lol!

 

[HOF]

There's my advice and my offer to take pics lol. Sorry if I sound cold-hearted, but my personal thoughts are much worse then the Irish Kiss/smiley face solution mentioned earlier lol! Keyra

Keyra, the Irish kiss breaks his face and the smiley break his neck. Seriously the problem will never come back.

 

[Keyra]

There's my advice and my offer to take pics lol. Sorry if I sound cold-hearted, but my personal thoughts are much worse then the Irish Kiss/smiley face solution mentioned earlier lol! Keyra

Keyra, the Irish kiss breaks his face and the smiley break his neck. Seriously the problem will never come back.

That may be true HOF, but with the amount of torture abused women go through with men like these (been there done that), I think they deserve as much torture as they've put their partners through before they meet their "permanent solution". Again, sorry to sound cold-hearted, but I have no sympathy for assholes like that ...

And besides, it's not right for me to actually say out loud what I'd like to see happen to scum like that (and that would even include abusive women too) right here on the board, lol.

P.S. When you gonna come and see me HOF ... We've been talking about it since mid-November ...

 

[trinbal]

you can always setup him up with tipping off the police by reporting he is dealing drugs... they will have to investigate and maybe do a search of his house, maybe find his stash, and if it is hard drugs, he will be charged and do jail time.... then setup your friend with someone better when he is in jail.... i know that is low but the end justify the means.... imho

 

[dj1470]

Keyra, the Irish kiss breaks his face and the smiley break his neck. Seriously the problem will never come back.

I was thinking more of a curb stomp would help here. But that's just me.
Abusive men need to be abused themselves. There is never a good reason to hit any woman, girl, or child. Skateboarders on the other hand. . . .but I digress.

 

[Antari]

I have to agree that a picture will likely prove/accomplish nothing, however if he's caught setting that up it will destroy his relationship with his sister. Unfortunately like many situations it's something that you can only offer your support and help and the 'victim' will either accept it or not. Until they're ready to be helped there is really nothing you can do but monitor the situation.

It sucks I know.

There was a guy I knew down in Mass. that used to teach a class on sensation therapy (basically using a more healthy Dom/sub play to replace the abusiveness) to help break such habits but I'm not sure if I still have his contact information. He believed that it was a predispositioned need to be 'abused' that drove people (it does happen to some males as well) into this sort of relationship and not just the 'aggressor' causing the 'victim' to be this way. I do know of a few girls that were in said situations that when brought to a professional Dom realized that that's what they needed and not a relationship with an abusive person.

That obviously won't work for everyone, and I obviously don't know this girl - or the situation, well enough to say with any definity that this will work but it's a thought. There is a completely non-sexual Pro Dom/Domme house here in K/W. How to bring such an idea about I have no idea without knowing her better.

Not sure any of that helped. But good luck, I hope all works out well in the end.

- Antarius

 

[jessica_dark]

Why not flip it? Get a bunch of really nice guys to suddenly become very involved in her life and possibly she'll see that men still do want her in a non-abusive way. It doesn't have to be like a 'new man in her life', but just really concerned friends that can protect her and send the scumbag to jail where HE gets to be on the abused end.

The drug set up would be the best bet. Gives her the space she needs to see things from an outside view and realize what the relationship really was.

It's like trying to convince a bar slut she doesn't have low self esteem. Get this girl high up on herself and show her that life doesn't have to always be so miserable. Some people need that push to make the bad ones go away, but if she could do it on her own all the better chance she'll have of not looking for the same type of guy.

 

[Warrior666]

Jessica is right 100%.

A solution like the one mentioned above by Mr. Anti would be the equivalent of applying a band aid on a broken leg.

Ultimately the picture would end up in the guy's hands and then Keyra's safety would be an issue, so ... better NOT do it at all.

Another solution would be for the guy to be served the same treatment he inflicts on women, otherwise he'll never learn.

You can take 1000 pictures, it's not gonna make any difference, she'll come back to him because he's offering whatever she's missing in her life, as sick as that may be.

 

[HOF]

Hey, I like what Jessica Dark said. I'm a really nice guy and single! Hook us up and I'll treat her like a queen.

For the jerk, okay just give him an Irish kiss and put him in general population and tell the other cons, he's an abuser of woman. That would be poetic justice.

 

[trinbal]

really beating up abusive men is only a short term solution... and worst case he might be seriously or fatally injured where apon the police will get involved... also you don't know if buddy will seek payback.... best bet is supporting your friend and helping her get out of the relationship... then if the punk tries anything well then it is fair game....

 

[Doh]

Walk softly and carry a cellphone...

"physically threatened her"
Well, I think Antari is correct that she'll seek out similar types. Protect your concerned friend as well by talking him out of doing something stupid like this 'Irish Kiss' idea. This is guaranteed to turn out badly. LE is there to serve and protect, so why not ask what can be done? I think the best 'legal' way to help her out, is to pass along a tip if you honestly think there is any physical abuse. I don't think they take these things lightly, and no matter what they find, the fact that they investigated might shine a little inspirational light on the girl. As well, they might have better advice on what to do then you will find on this board (no offence to anyone here, but they deal with this stuff everyday). Hope all works out ok.
- Doh

 

[Antari]

Not sure how the LE plays it out here but last time I called something like that in (granted it was in the states and thier LE is much different then here) I was told that unless I actually saw him hit her there was nothing they could do.
The impression I got is that unless she was repeatedly in the hospital for treatment, dead or pressed charges herself, they weren't going to investigate.

I would hope that Canada's LE is a little more pro-active, either way doesn't hurt to call and find out.

 

[Loti]

In regards to the original idea of a set-up, I do recall reading up on a local PI firm that operated in that exact manner, with one of their own decoys setting someone up. The business angle had been testing the loyalty of spouses or partners. Might still be around.