Ufc 84

[Tao]

Not a bad looking card..I have to admit to being a Tito fan, curious to hear from Mangi and others there thoughts on

Lyoto Machida vs Ortiz..Tito ground and pound a boring win

Wanderlei Silva vs Keith Jardine.. Silva by KO after finding Jardines chin, although I like Jardine and feel he got screwed and should be the coach on TUF in line for a title shot instead of Forrest

Penn vs Sherk...Penn, but if it goes past round 3...I dunno

Rich Clementi man this guy has had a busy year and I always enjoy watching Ivan Salaverry fight

 

[The Oracle]

okay I'll weigh in. Machida is tough matchup for anyone (ask Franklin) he might not be the most thrilling fighter but he's very smart and has few weaknesses in his game. Tito just hasn't evolved with the sport. This is his last fight in the UFC and he goes out with a loss.

Silva is probabaly the most exciting fighter mma has ever seen but he doesn't have much success in the cage and add to that he has just taken a beating in his last 3 fights. Jardine outside of his loss to Aleksander is just getting better and better. Plus he's got great coaching and comes witha plan(Liddell found that out the hard way). Take Jardine

Penn is the most gifted fighter on the planet. And at 155 he forced to be in good shape. Which spells disaster for whoever he faces. Sherk is a hard worker who always comes in shape. Maybe one way to look at this fight would be to see how they fared against a common opponent. I point to GSP. Sherk was totally outclassed while a good point could be made that Penn actually won that fight. Take Penn and easily.

I'm also a big Salaverry fan and hope he rebounds from his last loss to Martin.

 

[Herodotus]

Machida-Ortiz: I think it will be close, but unless Tito wins decisively, there's no way he's going to get a tight decision. Machida grinds out a close and somewhat boring decision... but I wouldn't be surprised if Ortiz ground and pounded a TKO. Machida split decision. Crowd cheers Tito, even though he doesn't get to speak on the mic. (I'd love to see him KO Dana White.)

Silva-Jardine: Wanderlai is on the downside of his career and is somewhat undersized at 205, but I think he pulls this one out. More of a gut instinct/heart pick than anything else. Jardine is a solid, but not spectacular all-around light heavy and is a brutal striker (best leg/body kicks at 205+ with CroCop pretty much done perhaps?) so this should be a great fight to watch for the casual fan. Wandy by KO.

Penn-Sherk: I see this unfolding much like the first Penn-Matt Hughes fight. Penn outstriking on the feet and then befuddling the wrestler on the ground, leading to a submission - probably a rear naked choke. Sherk is a strong wrestler at 155, but I just look at his results against good, but not great BJJ fighters in his last three fights and think that BJ Penn will find the opening and exploit it. Penn by rear naked choke in round two. (I'm tempted to say round one.)

When it's all said and done, BJ Penn may go down in history as the greatest MMA fighter of all time.


Other fights:

Thiago Silva-Antonio Mendes: I think Zuffa is protecting Silva in this one by putting him in with a guy that hasn't fought any big names. But in the last two years, we've seen an obscene amount of "upsets" and Silva hasn't really fought that many top fighters either. I'm picking Thiago, but this fight just screams upset because of Medes' experience (16 fights).

Wilson Gouveia-Goran Reljic: I know Zuffa is pinning its hopes on Reljic, but Gouveia has much more experience against a higher level of opposition. I'm picking the Croatian by KO, but I don't believe the hype 100%.

Rameau Sokoudjou-Kazuhiro Nakamura: I hope Sokoudjou can rebound from his last fight against Machida, otherwise his wins over Arona and Lil' Nog (a favourite of mine) were for nothing. Nakamura's a tough fighter with a good beard, so I'm a little worried about Sokou, but I'm still going to pick him by TKO.

Ivan Salaverry-Rousimar Palhares: I think Salaverry could be in trouble. Rousimar is one of the top fighter/trainers from the Brazilian Top Team. Ivan will have to use his height and reach advantage as much as possible... Rousimar by submission.


Interesting note - look at how far down the fight card UFC puts the Tito-Machida fight: http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=EventDetail.FightCard&eid=1105

 

[Manji]

Before I start my predictions for UFC 84...

Has anybody caught the new Japanese Fight Organization "Dream"?

The last Dream event happened two weeks ago and it was the best event of the year so far...

It also has one of the best fights of the year....Joachim "HellBoy" Hansen versus Eddie Alvarez....
Watch it on Youtube...Its an awesome fight....

Its pretty much the rebirth of Pride FC (unfortunately no soccer kicks or foot stomps) and although its not up to the standards of Pride it has a lot potential...Its only on its third event and they are still bringing in fighters....
They still don't have a Light Heavyweight Division or a Heavyweight Division yet but they are building those divisions up....Though they have Crocop fighting Jerome LeBanner in the next event....


As for the UFC....


Penn versus Sherk
I think BJ Penn will take it in the third....Penn's boxing has only gotten better and he won't have a problem working from his back....Sherk will have problems with BJ's high level Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and flexibility.... BJ will probably soften him up with striking (Penn's proved that he has really heavy hands) and then finish him on the ground with a submission...Sherk will really have to work at taking BJ down and keeping him down...

I agree with Herodotus that a Rear Naked Choke will be the most likely submission....Probably in the second or third round...Though I wouldn't mind seeing BJ finish Sherk with a Triangle (either from his back or better yet from the mount while pounding on Sherk)...


Ortiz versus Mahcida...
This one is a close one...It will go to whoever can control the fight and play his game...
Ortiz through takedowns and then Grounding N Pounding a decision...Or Machida by avoiding the takedowns and keeping it standing....
Have a feeling this might be the least entertaining fight of the night...


Wanderlai versus Jardine
On paper Wanderlai should be able to beat Jardine....But after seeing his fight with Lidell, I'm not so sure....Hopefully, his team will better prepare him for this fight and give him a decent game plan....
Legs kicks, clinching and just playing a more patient game (or a least smarter one) should give Silva the win....If he goes in brawlin like he did the last time then its anybody's game...
I'm gonna say Wanderlai will win a decision....Hoping for KO though....
If the "Axe Murderer" loses this fight I think he should leave his current team and switch to American Top Team....

Nakamura versus Sokoudjou....
This might be an entertaining fight....Two Judokas who will probably brawl it out as well....
Sokoudjou has the power and Nakamura has the experience....Although I would like to say Nakamura I think Sokoudjou will win....Training with Henderson and Team Quest will prepare him better for a UFC fight and will win through decision (Sokoudjou will outpoint Nakamura by taking him down)....

Thiago Silva versus Antonio Mendes....
I have a feeling this could be one of the more entertaining fights of the night....Don't really know Mendes but checked his record and he has finished a lot of his fights....Silva is on an unbeaten winning streak and I don't think Mendes will stop Thiago...Thiago will TKO him....

 

[Kyra.Graves]

I'm going with Machida for his fight. Tito has had a few injuries over his last few fights that have affected his game and I think the only way he pulls out a win over Machida is if he's 100%, which is rare for MMA fighters.

Silva - Jardine, I too am going for Silva but it's more heart than head. Silva's a favorite fighter of mine and despite the fact that he's not fared well in a cage his training is so hardcore that I'm always in awe of him. I think Jardine's a great fighter and definitely on the rise but he's just not earned the same level of respect that I give Silva. Heck if Sakuraba was back in the ring I'd root for him too no matter who the opponent, it's just an emotional decision -can't bring myself to cheer for the legends to lose.

Penn - Sherk, I'll take Penn for 600 Alex. I think Sherk is a great fighter and a tough match for BJ but BJ's never looked better. Sherk has always had great strength and cardio but I'm waiting to see how much of it was enhanced and how much was his natural fitness level. Add to that Sherk has a lot to prove right now and BJ's obviously gotten into his head, I'm interested to see if Sherk can keep that from affecting his game, I have my doubts. Should be a good fight though!

All in all a very good card, even the undercards are impressive and I'm looking forward to pretty much all the fights.

 

[dj1470]

Penn versus Sherk
Penn by TKO in rd 2

Ortiz versus Machida
Machida by unanimous decision

Silva versus Jardine *this will be the fight of the night
Silva by unanimous decision

Nakamura versus Sokoudjou *this will be the bore of the night
Sokoudjou by split decision

Thiago Silva versus Antonio Mendes
Silva by KO in rd 1

 

[C Dick]

Here are the odds I have seen:

Penn -250 vs Sherk. If Penn is in shape, I think he will win.

Machida -200 vs Ortiz. Ortiz has nothing left. It has been two years since he beat anyone but Ken Shamrock. His last non-decision win against anyone but Shamrock was in 2001! He is a celebrity now, not a credible fighter. I would love to see him win, but I have to pick Machida.

Silva -160 vs Jardine. I love Jardine, and I have never seen Silva fight a good fight, I have only watched him since UFC. So I will go with the upset.

 

[smuddan]

I just can't get too excited about this fight card; Ottis/VSilva/Penn are all over the hill and trying to hang on.

The same way now I can't get excited watching R.Jones/B.Hopkins/G.Johnson box anymore.

For the fight games I only want to watch the fighters fight while they are on the way up or at their prime.

I still think there's a chance for the Ander Silva/GSP fight because there's where the big money is.
.

 

[Herodotus]

Dude, BJ Penn is only 29. He's the best fighter in the world when he wants to be. Pound-for-pound, I'd out him against anyone. The others I can sorta understand, although Wandy will always give you a show.

Interesting story: when BJ trained with Team Quest (original version) neither Randy Couture (big 205 lber), Matt Lindland nor Dan Henderson (both big 185 lbers) could control him and were all freaked out by how strong Penn was.

Who's Ottis?

 

[Manji]

Ottis!?!?...I guess he meant Ortiz...

Yeah, Penn is far from being over the hill....

People question whether BJ will be in shape....He has to be to make it to 155...
After his loss to Hughes, Penn stated that conditoning would be a top priority for him...He's realized that he can't just rely on his skills and natural ability to win fights...


GSP will be killed by Anderson if that fight ever happened....Especially if GSP had to go up and fight at 185....I doubt that Anderson can make it down to 170 (pretty sure he did fight at Welterweight early in his career)....


BY THE WAY....

NOBODY HAS SEEN DREAM 3?

C'MON PEOPLE!!!!!

 

[Manji]

Silva -160 vs Jardine. I love Jardine, and I have never seen Silva fight a good fight, I have only watched him since UFC. So I will go with the upset.

You have to watch Wanderlai's fights in Pride FC.....
You would definitely have a different view of Silva after watching some of his fights in Japan...

 

[Herodotus]

Yeah, I know he meant Ortiz, I was just buggin' him.

I saw Dream 3 - some great fights. I'll post more on it in the next couple of days...

 

[Manji]

Not a bad looking card..I have to admit to being a Tito fan, curious to hear from Mangi and others there thoughts on

Just realized that you were talking about me, Tao...Thanks man....

Its "Manji"....And you got to capitalize all the letters in UFC....You do that every time.....

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on DREAM 3, Hero.....

 

[The Oracle]

Ottis!?!?...I guess he meant Ortiz...

Yeah, Penn is far from being over the hill....

People question whether BJ will be in shape....He has to be to make it to 155...
After his loss to Hughes, Penn stated that conditoning would be a top priority for him...He's realized that he can't just rely on his skills and natural ability to win fights...


GSP will be killed by Anderson if that fight ever happened....Especially if GSP had to go up and fight at 185....I doubt that Anderson can make it down to 170 (pretty sure he did fight at Welterweight early in his career)....


BY THE WAY....

NOBODY HAS SEEN DREAM 3?

C'MON PEOPLE!!!!!

I think GSP would do better than you think. Say at a catch weight of 177 lb.GSP has great wrestling and takedown ability and I would presume that would be his stratagey. I know Dana would never do it, but we can deam can't we. And speaking of Dream, I just saw Dream 3. Have to admit I don't know all of the Japanese fighters but the action was great.

I love watching Diaz fight although I do believe he is perhaps the stupidest fighter of all time. He always fights to his opponents strengths. Very odd. In Dream 3 Diaz just batters the Japanese fighter but he won't go down. And Miller just lays a beating on his guy. Is just me or in a lot of shows from Japan they bring in the foreign talent and just serve them up a Japanese tomato can. I know there are great Japanese fighters ( Yoshida, Sakuraba,Gomi etc) but wow the majority just seem to get hammered. Imho.

 

[Manji]

I think GSP would do better than you think. Say at a catch weight of 177 lb.GSP has great wrestling and takedown ability and I would presume that would be his stratagey. I know Dana would never do it, but we can deam can't we. And speaking of Dream, I just saw Dream 3. Have to admit I don't know all of the Japanese fighters but the action was great.

I love watching Diaz fight although I do believe he is perhaps the stupidest fighter of all time. He always fights to his opponents strengths. Very odd. In Dream 3 Diaz just batters the Japanese fighter but he won't go down. And Miller just lays a beating on his guy. Is just me or in a lot of shows from Japan they bring in the foreign talent and just serve them up a Japanese tomato can. I know there are great Japanese fighters ( Yoshida, Sakuraba,Gomi etc) but wow the majority just seem to get hammered. Imho.

Dan Henderson was an Olympic Wrestler who has fought some of the best in MMA and is known to be "crazy strong" (forgot which fighter said that) and Silva finished him the second round....
GSP may be more explosive than Hendo but that's not enough to beat Silva....Silva's striking would deomolish GSP standing up and his BJJ would negate GSP's wrestling....Anderson is just an all around better fighter than GSP....


As for Dream 3 and the Japanese Tomato Cans..
Miller and Diaz were put on the card kind of late....I think Dream wanted them to fight Japanese fighters to bring in the Japanese fans so they had to make do with what they could last minute...
Its hard to find quality Japanese fighters at the higher weight classes last minute....Plenty of elite level Japanese MMA fighters at 155 and lower but anything higher it starts to thin out pretty quickly....

Miller's and Diaz's next fight in Dream will be better....

Miller is fighting in the 185 Grand Prix tournament....So there could be some interesting match ups there.....Manhoef, Jacare, Sakuraba (though I hope Sakuraba and Jacare go at it)....

And Diaz will be fighting Mach Sakurai....The last few fights, Sakurai hasn't looked as sharp as he did in Pride Bushido 9 (he was brilliant in that tournament) but hopefully will see him back to form against Diaz....

(Though I kind of have a bad feeling that Mach has just gotten too old and hasn't been able to train at the level that he did for Bushido...He's hasn't looked too physically impressive and compared to how he moved in Pride he's been looking pretty sluggish)....

 

[dj1470]

GSP/Spider will NEVER happen. Too different in weight class. Either of them would be stupid to even contemplate doing this. Whoever switched weight class would get killed. Why would they do it? Absolutely no reason for either fighter. They have enough competition in their own weight classes. GSP's next title defence should be against Fitch and will be a good one. As far as Spider he is dominating right now and could hold the belt for a very long time.

 

[Smash]

Lyoto Machida beats Ortiz maybe even a KO

Wanderlei Silva KO's Keith Jardine

Penn chokes out Sherk

IMO Penn is the best pound for pound fighter in the world.

 

[Tao]

Just realized that you were talking about me, Tao...Thanks man....

Its "Manji".......

Shit, sorry about that Manji

 

[Herodotus]

GSP/Spider will NEVER happen. Too different in weight class. Either of them would be stupid to even contemplate doing this ...
Why would they do it? Absolutely no reason for either fighter.

Why? Here's two reasons:

1. Ego. (Who's the BEST P4P fighter in the world?)
2. Money. (If promoted right, this could be the biggest fight - in terms of live crowd and PPV buys - in MMA history.)

Neither fighter has any top contenders - particularly big money draws - on the horizon.


PS - Hold on Manj, I have to re-watch some of Dream and write a proper review...

 

[Manji]

Why? Here's two reasons:

1. Ego. (Who's the BEST P4P fighter in the world?)
2. Money. (If promoted right, this could be the biggest fight - in terms of live crowd and PPV buys - in MMA history.)

Neither fighter has any top contenders - particularly big money draws - on the horizon.


PS - Hold on Manj, I have to re-watch some of Dream and write a proper review...

Money is always a great reason....


I think it would be more likely that BJ Penn will end up fighting GSP again than Anderson and St Pierre going at it...

Penn has stated that he would like to have a re-match against the Welterweight Champion...