Trans Pacific Partnership - Is this a bad or a good thing.

[james t kirk]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ng-the-new-pacific-tradedeal/article26648948/

I'm just going to post the link as it's a nice summary of the TPP.

I have not been following it very closely, other than snippets in the news about how it will affect the Canadian Auto Industry and our farmers (dairy and poultry). Plus, Harper has been so incredibly secretive about it (as is his usual way of doing things) that we as a nation really don't know very much if anything about it.

I must admit, I have a lot of reservations about this deal.

1. I don't think your average Canadian will see an ounce of benefit from it.

2. I think it's completely geared to benefit Western Canada and Western Canada only - specifically, the export of raw materials. Harper has only one thing on his brain - Western Canada bulk sales of oil, coal, minerals, etc. This deal will help them, therefore, it's a good thing.

3. I think it's a race to the bottom. Hard to compete with cheap labour in Vietnam, China, Taiwan as it is right now. This will only make it worse. Again, is there any benefit whatsoever to the average Canadian? I don't think so.

4. The Asians don't buy North American cars no matter how much they cost (well, maybe the Chinese buy Buick for some reason, but that's about it.) North Americans should have the same rules applied to their vehicles as the Asians have to theirs - RIGHT NOW. But they don't. The Japanese just shrug and say, "Japanese people wouldn't buy North American cars anyway" and I believe this to be true.

5. NAFTA has not been a fair deal as far as I can see. There have been numerous trade disputes (Soft wood lumber) and we always seem to get the short end of the stick. I doubt that this will be any different.

6. I feel sorry for the farmers. They are truly going to get fucked. TPP quotes some fairly low numbers, but we all know that government bureaucrats lie all the time about numbers. One need only look to Stelco in Hamilton to see how well the Harper Conservatives did protecting Canadian jobs from a take over designed simply to shut down the competition.

7. Do we really need this deal?

So when I consider everything, I have to say, I oppose the TPP. I just don't see any benefit, except to Western Canadian Natural Resources and frankly, that's an industry in correction. It's not going away, but 10 years of it were based on growth in China and the reality is that there is not enough growth to go around.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

There is a good and bad in every deal, just like we had to do a lot of give and take with NAFTA. Canada will sell a lot of raw materials and agricultural products. Industrialized countries like Japan and the USA will sell more cars and electronics in Canada. Fruits and vegetables from Mexico, Peru and Chile will be cheaper for us.

 

[Big Sleazy]

Part of the TPP is to ban any bloggers or web sites that criticize policies of Corporations. So if you write and criticize Monsanto for GMO's. Or MERCK for vaccines, Or BP for an Oil spill. You and anybody that comments can be sentenced to prison. How do you like that one. They managed to sneak that in under a trade deal. Now you know why they're building mega prisons and privatizing them. They need more prisoners....you and me !

 

[anon1]

farmers (dairy and poultry).

The dismantling of "supply management" will lower the costs to consumers at the expense of suppliers, but they will be compensated by a gov't slush fund.
It will end the scam of free money to import license holders. Poultry producers are granted a license to import X amount of chicken meat from the US annually. Some actually do it, most sell their quota to a third party and get cash. I know 2 license holders that pocket 5 large, LARGE a year doing this.

 

[luckyjackson]

I guess it depends on who you are. If you are exporting stuff that's taken from the ground or owe your living to that industry, then I guess you have cause to favour it, but is it ultimately good for the nation? Not so sure.

And he'll, with the threat of the niqab hanging over us, who has time to ponder an international trade deal? Thank god governments negotiate these things without burdening us by sharing the details.

 

[Frankfooter]

This deal cedes control of quite a few areas of trade, labour and environment to the control of international corporations.
Its bad.

 

[eznutz]

I think a major problem is the Investor-State Dispute Settlement provision. Imagine a scenario in which Canada bans (further) development of the oil sands (NDP?). According to provisions of the TPP, any fossil-fuel company who invested in Canada can turn around and sue Canada for lost profits, real or imagined.

If anybody doubts this, In 2012, the U.S.’s Occidental Petroleum received an ISDS settlement of $2.3 billion from the government of Ecuador because of that country’s apparently legal termination of an oil-concession contract. Currently, the Swedish nuclear-power utility Vattenfall is suing the German government for $4.7 billion in compensation, following Germany’s phase-out of nuclear plants in the wake of Japan’s Fukushima disaster.

Signatory nations voluntarily surrender national sovereignty to the authority of corporate tribunals, without appeal, and apparently without exit provisions. No wonder the negotiations are secret.

 

[red]

The devil is in the details which are unavailable.

Already new zealand is pushing for more. They see it as a starting point not a deal.

I don't like the trade dispute mechanisms. They take away our sovereingty (sp).

Harper was desparate for a deal. What did he give up and what did we gain? I don't see much gained

 

[onthebottom]

I like the intellectual Propery and data parts - storing your gmail data only in Canada is archaic.

 

[james t kirk]

I can see how Canada is caught between a rock and a hard place on this. If the US and other countries sign the deal to reduce tariffs or eliminate tariffs, then really, what choice does Canada have? We as an exporting nation need to compete and other countries do not buy our goods and services because they are nice guys and want to support Canada. They buy Canadian because it's either better, or cheaper, or more convenient than the competition.

That said, I don't think trade deals are always fair. Quite the opposite in fact (as can be seen with NAFTA and how we continually get fucked over on that one.)

When Harper starts kicking around compensation numbers for the auto and farming industry, you just KNOW that we're going to get severely fucked on those fronts and the numbers being kicked around are a drop in the bucket. For that matter, who gets the money? They guy who loses his job on the line at Magna? Or Frank Stronach? I somehow doubt that Harper is going to give 2 cents to the guy who loses his job.

 

[Frankfooter]

This was tried before, as ACTA, and it was killed by popular protest.
This time they are trying to keep it under wraps and won't even release the details to this free trade agreement.
You gotta know there is a reason why they won't let the details out.

 

[JohnLarue]

This deal cedes control of quite a few areas of trade, labour and environment to the control of international corporations.
Its bad.

If this guy says it is bad then it has to be good

Any deal that removes barriers to trade & protectionism is good

 

[twizz]

Danny Williams: Voters 'can't trust' Harper on TPP

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/danny-williams-voters-can-t-trust-harper-on-tpp-1.2598136

 

[Frankfooter]

If this guy says it is bad then it has to be good

Any deal that removes barriers to trade & protectionism is good

Then why won't they release the details?

 

[fuji]

Chinese buy almost exclusively western cars, the company that has cleaned up there had been Volkswagen with VW Golfs and Passats being the two very popular cars followed by Audi, another VW brand. Lots of Tiguans on the road too. Ford, Mercedes are also common common. Kia and Hyundai have a presence.

Toyota has a foothold with Lexus, but has a serious branding problem because it is Japanese and the Chinese nationalist are currently shitting all over anything associated with Japan. Many Chinese refuse to buy Japanese products. They love German luxury brands.

Given the shit show with VW now would seem to be a great opportunity for other Western car brands in China, particularly luxury brands, the Chinese love status symbols. Dodge, Buick, Ford seem well positioned now in the mid range.

 

[RandyAndy2]

Then why won't they release the details?

I understand that the TPP won't come into effect until ratified by the various governments. Presumably all details would have to be released in order for it to be ratified by our Parliament.

 

[Frankfooter]

I understand that the TPP won't come into effect until ratified by the various governments. Presumably all details would have to be released in order for it to be ratified by our Parliament.

Nope.

Why the secrecy on Canadian trade talks? Because there’s something to hide: Geist
While other trade talks occupy a prominent place in the government’s promotional plans, the TPP remains largely hidden from view.

http://www.thestar.com/business/201...e_talks_because_theres_something_to_hide.html

Two copies of the biggest free trade deal in history are sitting in reading rooms -- one at each end of the Capitol.

The document is classified. Only members of Congress and staffers with security clearance can access it. And they can't make copies or even carry their own handwritten notes out the door.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/11/politics/trade-deal-secrecy-tpp/

If Harper were to return to power he would just push it through and stifle all debate, as he has done with so many other bills.
One more reason to vote against him.

 

[ogibowt]

gee, business friendly govts bending over for big business, who would of thunk?..lol..

 

[lomotil]

Chinese buy almost exclusively western cars, the company that has cleaned up there had been Volkswagen with VW Golfs and Passats being the two very popular cars followed by Audi, another VW brand. Lots of Tiguans on the road too. Ford, Mercedes are also common common. Kia and Hyundai have a presence.

Toyota has a foothold with Lexus, but has a serious branding problem because it is Japanese and the Chinese nationalist are currently shitting all over anything associated with Japan. Many Chinese refuse to buy Japanese products. They love German luxury brands.

Given the shit show with VW now would seem to be a great opportunity for other Western car brands in China, particularly luxury brands, the Chinese love status symbols. Dodge, Buick, Ford seem well positioned now in the mid range.

I posted about China earlier in the TPP, but I was informed that China is NOT , so I stand corrected. However China's shadow still looms large in any trade between N. America and Asia, directly or indirectly. In China's case, they are in a rock and a hard place, they desperately need Japan and recognize Japan's superior technological acumen. Japan needs China for trade and the former is spiralling down for many reasons. Japan raped China without a condom and the evidence is still fresh.


Originally Posted by lomotil

"The deal is good for a few Canadian industries but further relegates Canada to being a raw resource commodity cow at the mercy of Asia's ( China's) pace of growth. Canada manufactures very little that the world wants and it is not going to get better anytime soon, probably worse even. The Canadian dollar will further become a free floating currency with very little influence from Ottawa."

China is not part of the TPP, pointed out by the distinguished poster, Saxon.

 

[fuji]

I posted about China earlier in the TPP, but I was informed that China is NOT in the TPP, so I stand corrected. However China's shadow still looms large in any trade between N. America and Asia, directly or indirectly.

Absolutely. TPP is an attempt by the US and Canada to remain relevant to Pacific trade as China has signed a lot of excellent trade deals that exclude the US and Canada. This is an attempt to not be completely shut out.