Torontonians To Get F*cked by Miller and McSquint

[train]

It appears that Mayor Miller's new plan to tax the good citizens of Toronto will pass today. The people most affected are owners or potential buyers of real estate. As with all good taxes it disproportionately taxes wealther suckers. Real estate under $400,000 ( condo's) will be taxed at 0.5% of sales value while property over $400 is taxed at 2%. A modest house in TO is what $600,000 so if you sell don't forget to write Davis that cheque for $12,000.

Technically McSquint is not increasing taxes but it his government that passed the legislation allowing TO these broad taxing powers to gouge the public. Hey why bother controlling expenses when you can just raise taxes?

Glad I moved to 905 years ago. If you leave now they get to take a chunk outta your hide on the way out the door. You guys have no one to blame but yourselves

 

[train]

...actually most of the 905 region is getting seriously under funded, you can expect higher taxes yourself soon.

I find it funny how some people like yourself who moved to the 905 area can use 416 services and feel you don't have to pay for them. A lot of the reason the City of Toronto is in this mess is the high growth rate of the 905 region who use TO services and don't pay for them.



bbk

I don't use TO services anymore except when I'm downtown to spend money such as restaurants, sporting events etc.

I used to live in the 905 and my business was in Toronto. I paid substantial city business taxes ( about $35,000 per year for a 3,000 sq ft 5 person head office) so I'm puzzled by your belief that 905ers don't pay. I moved my business to 905 about 5 years ago because of traffic and commuting times becoming unbearable. Business taxes were reduced considerably as a result of this move.

Your reasoning that the underfunding is due to outsiders is a popular misconception by a lot of people and ignores the business taxes charged by the city. Many of these businesses simply would not exist if it were not for 905ers providing labour and consuming in TO. The need to blame someone else is rarely productive in solving a problem but if you still believe the problem is 905 ers then you really, really must be pissed at Miller's answer to the problem.

My particular portion of the 905 is not underfunded at the moment - it is however living off of the influx of people fleeing the city and runs the risk of becoming overcrowded.

If Toronto AND 905 are underfunded that represents what 60 or 70 % of the population of the province ? I would say that is obviously a problem McSquint is ignoring.

 

[TQM]

Partly,

Toronto is fucked up because it under collects property taxes for the few of us who live in the well off areas where property values have skyrocketed.

Aside from that, it's pretty amazing that a city with such a strong economy, really low unemployment, and such a strong base, can't afford to maintain services, which, frankly, aren't so particularly good.

 

[Neverenuff$]

Whats the issue both McSquinty and Miller were RE-elected within the past what 12 months?

the majority of Torontonians are getting a second helping at their request

 

[train]

Clearly you are missing the point here Train. I really don't care about your personal circumstances, just the overall effect. Your point that some how this is the Liberals fault is silly since this mess was started and created by the Conservatives under the Harris /Eves governments. You can't fix those kind of problems in just 4 years without massive tax hikes - something you and I would both scream about. Ask me in 4 years how I feel about the Liberals on this issue - if there is no action then maybe you have a point - until then you don't.

As for under funded neighborhoods in Toronto, I would say that's also true
but kind of system would you put in place. Do you punish long term home owners with valuations that may not reflect turnover rate of these homes. I don't know. If you do, you would have to put in place a system that can be adjusted both up and down.

BB you're obviously blind here. The McSquint Liberals didn't do anything in the first four years other than give an idiot like Miller the power to tax the hell out of you. What exactly do you expect them to do in the next 4 years ? So far McSquint best idea is to ask Harper for some of the money back that Martin took away.

Wake up - and as I said you only have yourselves to blame. Toronto elected both of these lightweights.

 

[maxweber]

The scum also rises

Glad I moved to 905 years ago. If you leave now they get to take a chunk outta your hide on the way out the door. You guys have no one to blame but yourselves

Uh-hunh; I hope that, between episodes of shoving a coke bottle up your ass for sexual pleasure, you make sure you don't use any of our goods and services. May you and the rest of the 905 greedheads broil in hell. So to speak.

MW

 

[Neverenuff$]

So Cretian/Martin.. good job ....and elected by vote rich Ontario (Toronto) .

Harris ruined Ontario (he got some support from Toronto)

Dalton - Lied for 4 years but is liberal so good job, He did a great job for 4 years and Vote rich Toronto wants him again for 4 more years

Mayer Miller is fiscally responsible (sic) , and Dalton granted him taxation powers, knowing this Toronto re-elected him ..

Toronto has got the premier and Mayar they wanted , and should be happy that they have the responsible council they wanted, and that that council is taking steps to provide services etc. via Taxes that they basically voted for.

This should be a happy thread.......

Unless of course its Harpers fault

 

[train]

Uh-hunh; I hope that, between episodes of shoving a coke bottle up your ass for sexual pleasure, you make sure you don't use any of our goods and services. May you and the rest of the 905 greedheads broil in hell. So to speak.

MW

Let me get this straight....you would prefer that absolutely no one came to Toronto other than people that lived there and pay property taxes ?

Genius at work here boy.... Good luck with that kind of insightful thinking....

 

[train]

As did most of 905 - regarding voting for Liberals. Once again we see a serial Conservative in denial about their past irresponsibilities regarding past fiscal policies. Once again I should remind you that Martin/Chretien were elected before Harris and warned Harris that they would be putting the Federal fiscal books in order - Harris decided on huge tax cuts in a period of less revenue from the Feds and a slowing Ontario economy.

As usual serial Conservatives will find fault with anything but their sorry ass policies.

bbk

BB , BB, I know it takes McSquint a long time to actually do anything. How much time do you think he need? 4 years wasn't enough as TO is worse than it was 4 years ago. Do you think the Miller/McSquint team can do in 8 years? Do you think that's long enough ? Do they need a decade ?

Seriously let us know how long you think it will take ?

PS The Miller camp councillors actually gave themselves a standing ovation yesterday because they passed a new tax.

 

[K Douglas]

...actually most of the 905 region is getting seriously under funded, you can expect higher taxes yourself soon.

I find it funny how some people like yourself who moved to the 905 area can use 416 services and feel you don't have to pay for them. A lot of the reason the City of Toronto is in this mess is the high growth rate of the 905 region who use TO services and don't pay for them.



bbk

Please tell me what 416 services the 905'rs use and don't give back in spending. If they drive on 416 roads they pay for parking (taxes to the city and jobs to the residents). They work at a 416 establishment that pays municipal taxes. They shop, spend money on breakfast, lunch and maybe dinner at businesses who pay taxes in the 416. Don't give me this fucking bullshit that 416 is subsidizing 905 users. And what about all the 416'ers who work in the 905 region??
BTW, I live in the 416.

 

[K Douglas]

The vehicle registration tax I can stomach. The land transfer tax I have a serious hard time with. Toronto has seen double digit average property increases for the better part of 7 years. Now they just want to add to the increase to make it even more expensive for homebuyers or sellers who may have to reduce asking price. The bottom line is more money is getting sucked out of the combined pockets of the buyer and the seller. And that is never a good thing because it leads to less money spent on other consumable goods in the 416, an erosion of the tax base, most likely a downward pressure on the selling price of homes = less commissions in the pocket of the real estate agent who lives in the 416. The negative spinoff is astronomical. I can't believe that any economist would approve such a tax. Oh wait, none did. It was only the special interest groups who Miller panders to that have their hands out but contribute little to nothing.

 

[Guapo Mucho]

not being from toronto, i just have one question - how do you guys let this nut stay in office?? he's obviously way off the edge of the map to the left yet he's in no danger of getting the boot. is Toronto THAT socialist?

 

[train]

not being from toronto, i just have one question - how do you guys let this nut stay in office?? he's obviously way off the edge of the map to the left yet he's in no danger of getting the boot. is Toronto THAT socialist?

What would you call a group of city politicians who stand up and give themselves an ovation when they pass a motion to increase taxes ?

 

[shakenbake]

The vehicle registration tax I can stomach. The land transfer tax I have a serious hard time with. Toronto has seen double digit average property increases for the better part of 7 years. Now they just want to add to the increase to make it even more expensive for homebuyers or sellers who may have to reduce asking price. The bottom line is more money is getting sucked out of the combined pockets of the buyer and the seller. And that is never a good thing because it leads to less money spent on other consumable goods in the 416, an erosion of the tax base, most likely a downward pressure on the selling price of homes = less commissions in the pocket of the real estate agent who lives in the 416. The negative spinoff is astronomical. I can't believe that any economist would approve such a tax. Oh wait, none did. It was only the special interest groups who Miller panders to that have their hands out but contribute little to nothing.

Do the words "Tax Grab" mean anything these days?

 

[enduser1]

What would you call a group of city politicians who stand up and give themselves an ovation when they pass a motion to increase taxes ?

No kidding. Any politician who booed would have been called "unprofessional and immature". Those are the current insults used to bully people into line. Even worse though is that Miller made it clear he was going to be raising taxes even further. Instead of cutting off the unpopular TTC expansion of light rail and cutting social services he caved in.

What Toronto should do is go bankrupt. I know that sounds crazy but bankruptcy actually saved New York in 1975 because they could make real and meaningful cuts to social programs and services. It is called hard ball. Basically, bankrupting the city forces the province to take over.

EU

 

[emvee]

Whats the issue both McSquinty and Miller were RE-elected within the past what 12 months?

the majority of Torontonians are getting a second helping at their request

So true. People basically slept-walked through both elections. Almost all incumbents returned. Miller will probably be re-elected again too.

It amazes me how disinterested people are in talking about local politics. People would rather debate how long Canadian Troops stay in Afghanistan what to do about climate change than talk about municipal taxes or transportation which impacts us way more on a day-to-day basis.

 

[emvee]

No kidding. Any politician who booed would have been called "unprofessional and immature". Those are the current insults used to bully people into line. Even worse though is that Miller made it clear he was going to be raising taxes even further. Instead of cutting off the unpopular TTC expansion of light rail and cutting social services he caved in.

What Toronto should do is go bankrupt. I know that sounds crazy but bankruptcy actually saved New York in 1975 because they could make real and meaningful cuts to social programs and services. It is called hard ball. Basically, bankrupting the city forces the province to take over.

EU

Unfortunately that's not ever going to happen while the unions and their NDP-backed councilors and mayor are in charge. Cuttin costs isn't even on the table right now.

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

Toronto's a terrible place. I haven't been there in a few years now. So I won't be using your precious services, nor do I intend to spend my time or money there in the forseeable future. I find there to a meanness of spirit there, and deadening anomie that kind of just ends up pissing me off about life after I spend just a little time there. It'd be different if there were compensations to all this, like for example a generally pleasant ambience or a really fun vibe....instead, there's just a bunch of buildings, rude people, and nothing to do but spend money in restaurants.
I'm not surprised that the best they can do is Miller.....he of the lobotomised stare.

 

[slowpoke]

not being from toronto, i just have one question - how do you guys let this nut stay in office?? he's obviously way off the edge of the map to the left yet he's in no danger of getting the boot. is Toronto THAT socialist?

I'm sure a great many Torontonians would have voted for someone else if there had been any quality candidates. Miller's main opponent was Jane Pitfield who was incapable of mounting a credible or politically coherent challenge. She was all over the map. Just like with most of the other levels of government in Canada, we had a choice between crazy and lazy.

 

[oldjones]

I'm sure a great many Torontonians would have voted for someone else if there had been any quality candidates. Miller's main opponent was Jane Pitfield who was incapable of mounting a credible or politically coherent challenge. She was all over the map. Just like with most of the other levels of government in Canada, we had a choice between crazy and lazy.

Too bad the cons couldn't have found at least one candidate who knew even half as much as the know-it-alls posting here. But hey, sniping fom the woods of 905 at the folks who actually have the balls to run and the smarts to win's a lot more fun than actually doing the work of fixing the mess Harris made and walked away from.