The Ryan choice

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,978
5,588
113
The Ryan choice
Paul Ryan is the reverse of Sarah Palin. She was all right-wing flash without much substance. He's all right-wing substance without much flash.

Ryan is not a firebrand. He's not smarmy. He doesn't ooze contempt for opponents or ridicule those who disagree with him. In style and tone, he doesn't even sound like an ideologue - until you listen to what he has to say.

It’s here - in Ryan’s views and policy judgments - we find the true ideologue. More than any other politician today, Paul Ryan exemplifies the social Darwinism at the core of today’s Republican Party: Reward the rich, penalise the poor, let everyone else fend for themselves. Dog eat dog.

Ryan's views are crystallised in the budget he produced for House Republicans last March as chairman of the House Budget committee. That budget would cut $3.3 trillion from low-income programmes over the next decade. The biggest cuts would be in Medicaid, which provides healthcare for the nation's poor - forcing states to drop coverage for an estimated 14 million to 28 million low-income people, according to the non-partisan Centre for Budget and Policy Priorities.







Paul Ryan's speech at Norfolk, Virginia


Ryan's budget

Ryan's budget would also reduce food stamps for poor families by 17 per cent ($135bn) over the decade, leading to a significant increase in hunger - particularly among children. It would also reduce housing assistance, job training and Pell grants for college tuition.

In all, 62 per cent of the budget cuts proposed by Ryan would come from low-income programmes.

The Ryan plan would also turn Medicare into vouchers whose value won't possibly keep up with rising health-care costs - thereby shifting those costs on to seniors.

At the same time, Ryan would provide a substantial tax cut to the very rich - who are already taking home an almost unprecedented share of the nation’s total income. Today's 400 richest Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million of us put together.

Ryan's views are pure social Darwinism. As William Graham Sumner, the progenitor of social Darwinism in America, put it in the 1880s: "Civilisation has a simple choice." It's either "liberty, inequality, survival of the fittest" or "not-liberty, equality, survival of the unfittest. The former carries society forward and favors all its best members; the latter carries society downwards and favours all its worst members".

Is this Mitt Romney's view as well?

Some believe Romney chose Ryan solely in order to drum up enthusiasm on the right. Since most Americans have already made up their minds about whom they’ll vote for, and the polls show Americans highly polarised - with an almost equal number supporting Romney as Obama - the winner will be determined by how many on either side take the trouble to vote. So in picking Ryan, Romney is motivating his right-wing base to get to the polls and pull everyone else they can along with them.

But there's reason to believe Romney also agrees with Ryan's social Darwinism. Romney accuses President Obama of creating an "entitlement society" and thinks government shouldn't help distressed homeowners but instead let the market "hit the bottom". And although Romney has carefully avoided specifics in his own economic plan, he has said he's "very supportive" of Ryan's budget plan. "It's a bold and exciting effort, an excellent piece of work, very much needed … very consistent with what I put out earlier."

Social Darwinism

Romney hasn't put out much but the budget he's proposed would, according to the Centre on Budget and Policy Priorities, throw ten million low-income people off the benefits rolls for food stamps or cut benefits by thousands of dollars a year, or both.







Paul Ryan tapped as Romney's running mate


At the same time, Romney wants to permanently extend the Bush tax cuts to the wealthy, reduce corporate income taxes and eliminate the estate tax. These tax reductions would increase the incomes of people earning more than $1 million a year by an average of $295,874 annually, according to the non-partisan Tax Policy Centre.

Oh, did I say that Romney and Ryan also want to repeal President Obama's healthcare law, thereby leaving 50 million Americans without health insurance?

Social Darwinism offered a moral justification for the wild inequities and social cruelties of the late 19th century. It allowed John D Rockefeller, for example, to claim the fortune he accumulated through his giant Standard Oil Trust was "merely a survival of the fittest… the working out of a law of nature and of God".

The social Darwinism of that era also undermined all efforts to build a more broadly based prosperity and rescue our democracy from the tight grip of a very few at the top. It was used by the privileged and powerful to convince everyone else that government shouldn't do much of anything.

Not until the 20th century did America reject social Darwinism. We created a large middle class that became the engine of our economy and our democracy. We built safety nets to catch Americans who fell downward, often through no fault of their own.

We designed regulations to protect against the inevitable excesses of free-market greed. We taxed the rich and invested in public goods - public schools, public universities, public transportation, public parks, public health - that made us all better off.

In short, we rejected the notion that each of us is on our own in a competitive contest for survival.

But choosing Ryan, Romney has raised for the nation the starkest of choices: Do we want to return to that earlier time, or are we willing and able to move forward - toward a democracy and an economy that works for us all?
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,757
113
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
What left wing source can we attribute this to...

He's going to eat Biden alive... will be fun to watch..

OTB
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,954
5,789
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
He's going to eat Biden alive... will be fun to watch..
Wrong again bottie.
Joe is already lambasting your young teabbager pretty well......:D
 

Scarey

Well-known member
What left wing source can we attribute this to...

He's going to eat Biden alive... will be fun to watch..

OTB
That's all I've heard since Ryan was nominated.The bars being put incredibly high for him at the VP's debate.Biden has his gaffe's but he's no dummy.If Biden holds his own against Ryan it's a win for Biden.If he kicks his ass all over the stage , it stops Ryan's momentum dead.

Joe Biden is 69.Old people can relate to old people.If he looks into the camera and convinces the senior citizen vote that this young whippersnapper is coming to mess with their medicare and medicad.He brings a very big block of votes back into play.......and probably gains Florida
 

fun-guy

Executive Senior Member
Jun 29, 2005
7,275
3
38
The Ryan choice
Reward the rich, penalise the poor, let everyone else fend for themselves. Dog eat dog.




Ryan's budget

Ryan's budget would also reduce food stamps for poor families by 17 per cent ($135bn) over the decade, leading to a significant increase in hunger - particularly among children. It would also reduce housing assistance, job training and Pell grants for college tuition.

In all, 62 per cent of the budget cuts proposed by Ryan would come from low-income programmes.

The Ryan plan would also turn Medicare into vouchers whose value won't possibly keep up with rising health-care costs - thereby shifting those costs on to seniors.

At the same time, Ryan would provide a substantial tax cut to the very rich - who are already taking home an almost unprecedented share of the nation’s total income. Today's 400 richest Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million of us put together.
and Americans today think crime is high? Implement Ryan's budget and you ain't seen nothin' yet.............how can anyone in their right mind think implementing Ryan's vision will result in a just and civil society? You don't have to know anything about politics to understand this. I'm not completely versed on the two parties but on the surface it would appear that Republicans come across as bullies.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/08/14/exp-point-sununu-one.cnn
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
1
0
Listening to Sinunu, and Tara Wall tap dance around the Ryan plan or is it the Romney plan for medicare or is it the Romney or Ryan budget plan, was a hoot. First Romney backs Ryan and then he says he has a different plan. They Sinunu and wall didn't answer a single question posed to them, just repeat talking points. The team looks like a row boat full of oarsman all going off on a different beat or direction.

Sinunu blamed the White House for the two men having different plans.

It's become clear that the Ryan choice was an attempt to placate the Teabaggers, but it's looking bad as Romney may have a tiger by the tail.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...y-where-he-and-paul-ryan-diverge-on-medicare/
Romney Won’t Say Where He and Paul Ryan Diverge on Medicare


Email6Smaller FontTextLarger Text|Print


MIAMI – Asked three times today whether there are parts of Rep. Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan with which he disagrees, Mitt Romney offered no specifics, saying only that “there may be.”
“Well, the items that we agree on I think outweigh any differences there may be,” Romney said of his running mate’s Medicare overhaul plan at a news conference on the tarmac of the Miami airport.
“We haven’t gone through piece by piece and said, ‘Oh, here’s a place where there’s a difference.’
“I can’t imagine any two people, even in the same party, who have exactly the same positions on all issues,” Romney added, before explaining that his plan for Medicare is “very similar” to Ryan’s.
Romney’s website says that Ryan’s plan “almost precisely mirror’s Mitt’s.” But Romney overlooked any differences today.
“I’m sure there are places that my budget is different than his but we’re on the same page, as I’ve said before. We want to get America on track to a balanced budget,” Romney told one reporter.
And in a follow-up question about whether there were any specific policies in his budget on which he would run that are different than Ryan’s plan, Romney was brief and frank in his response.
“There may be,” the candidate said. “We’ll take a look at the differences.”


Mitt Romney’s Medicare Plan Is Essentially Paul Ryan’s


Email6Smaller FontTextLarger Text|Print


Jeffrey Phelps/AP Photo

Mitt Romney may have his own budget plan, but as far as Medicare is concerned, he and Paul Ryan are almost of one mind.

“I have my budget plan,” Romney said Sunday in North Carolina. “And that’s the budget we’re going to run on.”


Paul Ryan’s 2013 budget plan, passed by the House in March, includes a lot of things, and Mitt Romney has endorsed it in the past, telling Wisconsin supporters in a tele-town-hall meeting four days after the House passed it.
“I think it’d be marvelous if the Senate were to pick up Paul Ryan’s budget and to adopt it and pass it along to the president,” Romney said.
On the topic of Medicare specifically, Romney backs the same outline Ryan drafted in conjunction with Democratic Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden in December. In fact, Romney’s website implies the presumptive GOP nominee came up with it first.
Where Romney’s website lays out his Medicare plan, it enumerates the broad strokes of Ryan’s latest iteration: an overhaul that would give seniors the options of 1) entering a voucher/subsidy program and buying government-approved private insurance programs, with “premium-support” checks to help with the payment, or 2) enrolling in Medicare’s own coverage plan, like the program works today.
Romney’s site states that Ryan’s plan “almost precisely mirrors” Romney’s:
How is this different from the Ryan Plan?
Shortly after Mitt presented the proposal described here, Congressman Paul Ryan and Senator Ron Wyden introduced a bipartisan proposal that almost precisely mirrors Mitt’s ideas. Unsurprisingly, the Obama administration immediately rejected the proposal. Mitt has applauded the Ryan-Wyden effort and looks forward to working as president with leaders from both sides of the aisle to implement meaningful reforms that will preserve Medicare for future generations.
Romney has defended Ryan’s plan since naming him as the GOP’s vice presidential candidate, and when the House passed Ryan’s budget in March, Romney issued this statement praising it:
We are making progress. The House of Representatives has unanimously rejected President Obama’s vision of an America with higher taxes, unlimited spending, and expansive government. Owing in no small part to the leadership of Paul Ryan, it has put conservative fiscal principles into action and passed a bold budget that directly addresses the drivers of our nation’s spending crisis. The House budget and my own plan share the same path forward: pro-growth tax cuts, getting federal spending under control, and strengthening entitlement programs for future generations. I look forward to working with Congress to achieve fiscal discipline and passing a budget that moves us toward a simpler, smarter, and smaller federal government.
Ryan endorsed Romney the next day.
In Florida today, ABC’s Emily Friedman reports that Romney was asked, by a gaggle of reporters, how his budget differs from Ryan’s. He provided no specifics on the spot.
“I’m sure there are places that my budget is different than his but we’re on the same page as I’ve said before, we want to get America on track to a balanced budget,” Romney said. Pressed again by another reporter on differences in their ideal budgets, Romney said, “There may be, we’ll take a look at the differences.”
But Romney has not endorsed the “Ryan Plan” of yesteryear–the drastically more conservative Medicare proposal for which Ryan became known.
Ryan’s latest Medicare plan is different from his previous model in several major ways. In December, he released a new version along with Wyden, ranked by National Journal as the Senate’s 17th most liberal member.
That plan entailed significant differences from the version Ryan proposed from 2008-2011–the version that became welded to Ryan’s political identity as he defended it relentlessly against Democratic criticism. Support for that plan became a litmus test for GOP candidates’Tea Party credentials, and, after some Republicans resisted it, Ryan’s 2011 Medicare reforms became GOP orthodoxy.
Get more pure politics at ABC News.com/Politics and a lighter take on the news at OTUSNews.com
In the old version, seniors would not have the public option Ryan/Wyden affords them. For those under 55, Medicare would cease to function as a fee-for-service health-coverage provider; instead, it would become a voucher-esque program in full. Medicare would become a board that approves private insurance plans and doles out “premium-support” payments to seniors, subsidizing their purchases of those plans. In 2011, critics feared that Ryan’s premium-support payments would not grow fast enough, leaving seniors unable to afford coverage or out-of-pocket expenses for care.
Ryan overhauled his overhaul along with Wyden, making drastic changes that addressed most of those fears. Under his latest, almost unrecognizable 2012 proposal, seniors could opt into Medicare as-is, a fee-for-service provider that pays hospitals for a set of benefits. For those who choose subsidized private insurance, payments would be indexed not just to inflation (as in Ryan’s previous version), but to the cost of insurance plans. A catastrophic-care benefit would limit out-of-pocket costs.
So if you overhear a debate over whether ”Mitt Romney supports the Ryan Plan,” keep in mind that “the Ryan Plan” could mean many things: his overall budget, the 2011 Medicare-reform plan that would end the program as we know it and for which Ryan became known, or the drastically different 2012 version crafted with a Democrat and potentially carrying centrist appeal.
Romney supports that last one, but the specifics can easily be lost in the debate.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,944
5,384
113
Lewiston, NY
Not even a "bump" in the polls like for virtually all other VP candidate announcements, doesn't look good for the "tax cuts for the rich on the backs of the poor" crowd, does it?
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
10,025
0
0
As I said before, this was a pick born out of desperation. Romney has now made his base and the tea bag crowd happy, but he didn't need to. None of them were going to vote for Obama anyway. The pick does nothing to help Romney win over Blacks or Hispanics, more likely the opposite. So it all comes down to the White vote.

McCain won 52-53% of the White vote and still lost by around 7 points. For Romney to eke out a win he'd likely have to get closer to 60% of the White vote. maybe more. Many of those people are senior citizens, especially in battleground states like Florida, and I think the Ryan pick will hurt him especially with them. He wants to privatize Social Security and replace Medicare with a voucher program. How do you think that's going to reasonate?

Romney has shown no inclination to stick to any real idea. Well, now he has a VP who does, and does so in spades. Romney has picked a running mate who will end up defining him. With this pick, I could imagine the possibilty of Obama winning by a bigger margin then he did four years ago.
 

ogibowt

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2008
6,735
3,521
113
only in america, would this guy get all this attention.....if this guy was canadian and even attempted to present his views, he would be laughed off as a right wing wacko, which is what he is....Hooray for canada..
 

msog87

Banned
Dec 11, 2011
2,070
1
0
you can't preserve medicare or social security when its impossible, the democrats are just keeping the dream alive until it comes crashing down. paul ryan isnt even that radical, hes not talking about abolishing when that is the reality of what has to happen. he also says he wants to keep the system unchanged for those currently 55 and older, which makes any reform attempt useless. this whole GOP vs democrat debate over entitlements is a farce, both of them have no real solutions. the fact is these entitlements are bankrupt and a giant ponzi scheme. the fed could print a few trillion to keep it alive longer but by doing that your cheque won't be able to buy much
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
10,025
0
0
you can't preserve medicare or social security when its impossible, the democrats are just keeping the dream alive until it comes crashing down. paul ryan isnt even that radical, hes not talking about abolishing when that is the reality of what has to happen. he also says he wants to keep the system unchanged for those currently 55 and older, which makes any reform attempt useless. this whole GOP vs democrat debate over entitlements is a farce, both of them have no real solutions. the fact is these entitlements are bankrupt and a giant ponzi scheme. the fed could print a few trillion to keep it alive longer but by doing that your cheque won't be able to buy much
If we decided not to spend a third of our tax money being a warrior nation and policemen of the world, we could easily look after our own people. What are our bloody priorities here people?
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,954
5,789
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
What are our bloody priorities here people?
That pretty much defines the difference between DEMs who would prefer helping folks and GOPers who just prefer killing folks!....:eyebrows:
 

msog87

Banned
Dec 11, 2011
2,070
1
0
If we decided not to spend a third of our tax money being a warrior nation and policemen of the world, we could easily look after our own people. What are our bloody priorities here people?
slashing military spending by a few hundred billion a year aint gonna do it, we are looking at future multi trillion dollar deficits due to entitlements and higher interest rates. huge promises were made back then that were never sustainable, now we are nearing the end game and the politicians are doing exactly nothing bc itll involve telling the american people they have been scammed. its the biggest scam in the history of the world, all the money thats been paid into the trust funds is gone, congress spent it. its like all your life having you deadbeat loser uncle manage your life savings, then when you go to make withdrawals at retirement you find out he;s spent it all on coke and hookers. once the world stops lending america money, this whole fantasy comes crashing down. this year was an important milestone, its the first year medicare and social security are officially adding to the deficit, its gonna get alot worse
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,954
5,789
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
msog87 is befuddled

^^^Fear not msog87....bottie will explain, complete with arts & charts & fuzzy numbers, how GLOBALISM will solve all that!!!!...:hand:
He's been carping that for years!!!....:rolleyes:
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
10,664
2
0
slashing military spending by a few hundred billion a year aint gonna do it, we are looking at future multi trillion dollar deficits due to entitlements and higher interest rates. huge promises were made back then that were never sustainable, now we are nearing the end game and the politicians are doing exactly nothing bc itll involve telling the american people they have been scammed. its the biggest scam in the history of the world, all the money thats been paid into the trust funds is gone, congress spent it. its like all your life having you deadbeat loser uncle manage your life savings, then when you go to make withdrawals at retirement you find out he;s spent it all on coke and hookers. once the world stops lending america money, this whole fantasy comes crashing down. this year was an important milestone, its the first year medicare and social security are officially adding to the deficit, its gonna get alot worse
Each of your posts seeks to get less well informed and nuttier.

You should be thankful that social darwinism does not reign here.
 

msog87

Banned
Dec 11, 2011
2,070
1
0
It's that you don't understand it, no matter how many of the members tell you and show you with facts that you're wrong. We all get you don't, simple.
ok answer this simple question, they are running 1.5t deficits with record low interest rates right now, have a debt to GDP over 100%, the baby boomers have not even entered the entitlement system yet. so where is the money gonna come from to pay for all this government? 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities?
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
1
0
ok answer this simple question, they are running 1.5t deficits with record low interest rates right now, have a debt to GDP over 100%, the baby boomers have not even entered the entitlement system yet. so where is the money gonna come from to pay for all this government? 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities?
First off it's not going to happen over night.

It's already been mentioned by many, cut military spending and let the Bush tax cuts end. The NY Times has said the Bush-era tax cuts were the single biggest contributor to the deficit over the past decade, reducing revenues by about $1.8 trillion between 2002.

2009.http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/opinion/taxes-the-deficit-and-the-economy.html?_r=2

Yes, you have to retrain the employees, but that can be done quite well as it was with the auto workers in Germany.

During that same period, there is no proof these cuts produced more jobs, their sitting on their cash instead, and basically did little except make the rich richer. It's true the rich paid more taxes measured in dollars and cents, but not as a percentage of their income. Their income increased by an average of over 10% a year, their taxes sure didn't. It will also give the little guy, you remember, the guy that works for the companies that the rich guys work for and make it work, an idea that the government is doing something for 'them'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/opinion/the-rich-get-even-richer.html

Those two steps alone won't solve it immediately, but over a long run they will make quite a difference and give others, not necessarily the rich, the confidence to invest and that will make a big difference, giving the momentum the market needs.

There are other things that can be done but these are obvious and would make a big difference.

I have little doubt that as the election approaches, if the GOP is still showing poorly they will off military cuts, but they will be very small and too late to make the electorate think they mean it.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts