The return of democracy

[fuji]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rders-parliament-to-reconvene/article4398266/

Defying military, Egypt's Morsi orders parliament to reconvene

Egypt's president on Sunday ordered the Islamist-dominated parliament to reconvene in defiance of a military decree dissolving the legislature last month on the basis of a ruling by the country's top court, the state news agency reported.

The surprise move by President Mohamed Morsi, himself an Islamist, will almost certainly lead to a clash with the powerful generals who formally handed power to him on June 30 after spending 16 months at the nation's helm following the ouster of Hosni Mubarak in a popular uprising.

...

Good for him. Let's hope that he stays the course and remains true to democratic principles once he consolidates his hold on power. Flawed as it may be, the elected legislature is less flawed than military rule.

 

[Butler1000]

I agrre with this.
But unfortunately its going to get a LOT worse before it gets better
If you thought the Dems and GoP were partisan......
And if they enshrine Sharia in the constitution......

I see this. I see the same in Tunisia, in Libya

The Muslum Brotherhood if gstarting to gain a lot of power. Real power.

If Algeria fell to them they would control the North African coast.

Its almost like Europe when the Monarchies started to drop.
And Facsism took hold......


Look what THAT got us.......

 

[Aardvark154]

. . . remains true to democratic principles

Do you honestly believe that the Muslim Brotherhood gives a Tinkers Dam about either democratic principles or minority rights?!

 

[Asterix]

Do you honestly believe that the Muslim Brotherhood gives a Tinkers Dam about either democratic principles or minority rights?!

I'll answer that. Ahem. No.

 

[onthebottom]

If Egypt goes the way of Turkey then it's the big win for the Middle East... if they go fundie it's a big loss....

OTB

 

[wigglee]

The question is whether it is better for a democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood government to rule or would we prefer a military dictatorship instead.

 

[fuji]

Do you honestly believe that the Muslim Brotherhood gives a Tinkers Dam about either democratic principles or minority rights?!

The question is, do YOU give a tinker's dam about democracy, or are you going to oppose a democratically elected government in Egypt because you don't like its politics?

 

[Butler1000]

A certain party was elected in Germany too. About 80 years ago. The question is whether the constitution enshines Sharia and whether once the MB get power they will give it up if the vote goes against them next time.
I can see the paralles happening........

 

[seth gecko]

Here's the situation as it really stands:
The military recently dissolved the Muslim Brotherhood - dominated parliament AFTER the Egyptian Supreme Court ruled that a large number of members had been elected illegally. The SCAF then did a re-alignment of power, pretty effectively limiting the powers of the President from what they were when Mubarak (on of their own) held the office, and called for new parliamentary elections (funny, in that they tried to rig the original elections, but were outmaneuvered by the MB, who rigged a rigged election to get they guys in office).

Now you've got the President defying the orders of the nations highest court in a manner that would be of greatest beenfit to the MB and not necessarily the Egyptian people (who in alot of cases weren't aware of the affiliation of the candidate they voted for, due to the rigging of the rigged election). Probably one of the best-known political figures currently in Egypt, Mohamed ElBaradei has already taken to Twitter criticizing the actions of Mursi (and ElBaradei was a vocal & harsh critic of military rule and a prominent advocate for political reform).
The newly-elected President of Egypt might already consider himself above the law, or maybe he's just not familiar with the process. Mursi actions over the next few days will clarify which, but neither one bodes well over the short-term.

As usual, the OP is making premature comments on situations he is very ignorant of....................but hey, no NATO personnel were killed or injured thus far in Egypt, so it must all be good. LOL!!!!

 

[fuji]

There's no doubt that the Parliament and the Presidency are flawed, Seth, but far less flawed than the military dictatorship they replace. Partial democracy is better than no democracy. So long as they keep moving in that direction they should be supported.

Mursi has called for new elections to be held, and how well those go off will be pretty key.

 

[Rockslinger]

or are you going to oppose a democratically elected government in Egypt because you don't like its politics?

Yes, if they don't significantly advance women, gay and minority rights.

 

[onthebottom]

What's interesting here is not domestic Egyptian politics (which I'm sure is very interesting to Egyptians, but I'm not one) but what they will do about their wildly unpopular peace deal with Israel.... fuji may be less enthusiastic about democracy if the Egyptian street get's what it wants there.....

OTB

 

[fuji]

Yes, if they don't significantly advance women, gay and minority rights.

Yeah because those things do so well under a dictatorship?

 

[fuji]

fuji may be less enthusiastic about democracy if the Egyptian street get's what it wants there..

On the contrary, I am hoping for it, in the context of a democracy. It will force a confrontation if the gap between the west and the Arab street, but in the context of democratic deliberation.

Ultimately that is a conversation we have to have, and which we have been avoiding for sixty years.

 

[onthebottom]

On the contrary, I am hoping for it, in the context of a democracy. It will force a confrontation if the gap between the west and the Arab street, but in the context of democratic deliberation.

Ultimately that is a conversation we have to have, and which we have been avoiding for sixty years.

That conversation was expressed in 1967, what's been going on since is an effort not to repeat that experience.

 

[Aardvark154]

The question is, do YOU give a tinker's dam about democracy, or are you going to oppose a democratically elected government in Egypt because you don't like its politics?

The real world question is, does one always believe that belief in a political philosophy, even if you strongly believe that it is the best political philosophy, trump your own states national interest?

 

[groggy]

What's interesting here is not domestic Egyptian politics (which I'm sure is very interesting to Egyptians, but I'm not one) but what they will do about their wildly unpopular peace deal with Israel.... fuji may be less enthusiastic about democracy if the Egyptian street get's what it wants there.....

OTB

Actually, I'm way more interested in how the Arab spring plays out then Egypt's foreign policy.
Not everything is about Israel, just saying.

Egypt is still definitely in process, we'll see how Morsi's plan works out and whether it puts people out on the street protesting or brings in the army.

 

[oldjones]

The real world question is, does one always believe that belief in a political philosophy, even if you strongly believe that it is the best political philosophy, trump your own states national interest?

Everyone must and does answer that question individually. But if most people pick their national interest over democracy—or are lulled and cowed into silent submission—it may be a long road back. That's why the longer-lived democracies have made such a fetish of things like bills of rights and the primacy of parliament, so that there would be an assured mechanism for dissent along with the mechanism for decision.

There cannot be democracy without dissent. The essence of democracy is the protection minority by the majority that rules. Because they only rule for now.

 

[rld]

The real world question is, does one always believe that belief in a political philosophy, even if you strongly believe that it is the best political philosophy, trump your own states national interest?

On this issue, and most issues, I believe my country's national interest matches up with my political philosophy.

But I understand and respect your dissent Herr Bismark. :Eek:

 

[fuji]

That conversation was expressed in 1967, what's been going on since is an effort not to repeat that experience.

What happened in 1967 was politics by other means. With democratic leaders in the Arab world, we may be able to repeat 1967 without the other means, and that would be a good thing. We need to confront the underlying problem and the opposing viewpoints and start bridging between them. The negotiations that followed the active hostilities resulted in some real progress towards resolving the underlying conflict. It would be nice to have those sorts of negotiations without having to first have the bloodshed, or the threat of it.

Historically democracies do not go to war with one another. They wind up sitting down and negotiating, sometimes through long and torturous negotiations, but they have a history of talking out their differences. A democratic Egypt talking to a democratic Israel with both sides accurately reflecting the interests of their respective peoples is a conversation that is long overdue.