The Buildup of military might by China

[ice_dog]

Check this out . Your thoughts ?

FYI, the 15-year embargo on arms deliveries to China started around 1990 after the Tianman massacre (in 1988). Both France and Germany are eager to sell arms to China once this embargo is lifted

http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040425014148.ifv273vv.html

 

[papasmerf]

Check this out . Your thoughts ?

FYI, the 15-year embargo on arms deliveries to China started around 1990 after the Tianman massacre (in 1988). Both France adn Germany are eager to sell arms to China once this ban expires.

http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040425014148.ifv273vv.html

Could be beacuse they lost their buyer in Iraq.

 

[Hard Idle]

Arms embargo? That's hardly free trade and laissez-faire is it? What ever happened to letting the all-mighty markets decide?

 

[assoholic]

..Tiawan more then anything else has represented a huge Military base for the US just outside China. That is why China wants it back so badly, and the second they think they can get away with it the Chinese will take it.

 

[onthebottom]

Given that neither country has much of a military or presence in Asia I guess they'll never have to face weapons they sell to this dictatorship.

Perhaps the EU should show a bit more backbone on this issue.

OTB

 

[WoodPeckr]

Red China's SUPPORTERS

Red China will be eternally thankful for the support and help they got from those fine US Corporations, for without them China could never have amassed enough money to purchase all those arms from whomever was willing to sell them. Funny how the USSR was bankrupted into oblivion while Red China, which is still very COMMUNISTIC, is propped up, given all kinds of help and jobs to insure they will not go the way of the USSR on the hope and a prayer that Red China may someday become a democracy.

It must be working since the US trade deficit hit an all time record high, and growing, in the last reporting period! Guess there is more concern for the workers in China than those in the US as jobs are shipped there as fast as they can be. If I didn't know better I'd have to say it sure sounds like that "Giant sucking sound...." ole Ross Perot warned us about a few years back, but then that couldn't be since was was supposed to be crazy according to his pals and buddies in Corporate USA ........

 

[ice_dog]

you have to pay a visit to China instead of repeating the stuff you heard from CNN. See if it is still that RED.

I was there. I saw racism, prejudice, disrespect for intellectual property, corruption, hypocrisy.

 

[ice_dog]

China bought all those weapons from EU to nuke OTB's house. OTB the biggest dictator of worst kind.

Did you just warn someone not to heap 'personal attack' on you ? Do you realize you were threatening him ? Guess hypocrisy is alive and well in communism !!

You have a lot grow-up to do , kid !

 

[Don]

I was there. I saw racism, prejudice, disrespect for intellectual property, corruption, hypocrisy.

That seems to indicate to me that it is not that "RED"

 

[Keebler Elf]

The reason the US does not sell weapons to China is purely political (the same reason they stopped selling weapons to Iraq). If American weapons manufacturers would be allowed to sell to China, they would do so in a heartbeat. So trying to make France and Germany out to be the bad guys is a little off the mark. The current political situation makes selling arms by US firms to China unacceptable. The current political situation for France and Germany is, understandably, quite different than that of the US (they are their own nations afterall; there is no "law" that all nations must do what the US does).

There's no great morality behind the US arms embargo. If there was, they would never have sold weapons to Iraq. Or any one of a number of military dictatorships in South/Central America. Or Iran for that matter.

Do you honestly think the US would foster a new world war over Taiwan? Yes, I know all the rhetoric, but do you think they really would go to war with China in this day and age? I don't. The support of the American people just isn't there. Especially after the Iraq fiasco. The only reason China hasn't gone in is b/c of the huge military disparity. As that gap closes, so too does the amount of time Taiwan remains independent, IMO.

All of this is moot, of course. China is on course to be the super power of the future, not the United States. And in that, one could call the actions of France and Germany forward thinking.

 

[ice_dog]

For a commie country they seem to have mastered "capitalism" more then most EU and western countries...

Quote:
I was there. I saw racism, prejudice, disrespect for intellectual property, corruption, hypocrisy.

Sure, but the glass is half empty or half full..... And North America has NONE of these traits.......

Haha, what a convenient rebuttal ! I never said that Canada is free of such craps as racism, prejudice and corruption.

The difference between(Canada and China) is that there are democracy and freedom here. There are checks and balances here.

Take the Quebec Separatist movement in the 90's for example. During the the 1995 Referendum, the country was on the brink of breakup. Can you recall Ottawa ever legislated a new anti-secession law to prevent Quebec from leaving the confederation ? Did Ottawa ever beef up the military so as to threaten Quebec ? Instead, Ottawa reply on lobbying or propaganda to mobolize the country to deal with such crisis. Then ther was the sponsorship was riddled with corruption. But then this is being deat in the open in a democratic fashion, if you have been following the news- and this is not from CNN

By contrast, Chinese government sent its troops and tanks in to put down the student demonstration

I can understand that many of those who support the policies of the chinese government ar doing it out of national pride. May I ask you why you chose to live in this country, or study in this country, instead of moving back to your be-loved motherland, if u have so much pride in your national origin ?

 

[Keebler Elf]

May I ask you why you choose to live in this country, or study in this country, instead of moving back to your be-loved motherland, if u have so much pride in your national origin ?

Because our education system is better, perhaps?

I don't think your argument is a particularly strong one. If Harvard offered me a full scholarship I'd go there. That in no way means I'd ever want to become an American. People like to hold ideals, but they rarely practice them. Whatever gets you ahead in life... that seems to be the bottom line for most people (within reason, of course).

 

[ice_dog]

Because our education system is better, perhaps?

I don't think your argument is a particularly strong one. If Harvard offered me a full scholarship I'd go there. That in no way means I'd ever want to become an American. People like to hold ideals, but they rarely practice them. Whatever gets you ahead in life... that seems to be the bottom line for most people (within reason, of course).

Do you have the nerve to tell the chinese government that its prorities are fucked up and more money should be spent to help the rural peasants and to improve the education system, to clean up the environment, instead of being obssessed with brining Taiwan down to its kneels ? The chinese government is really on an ego trip, the way I see it.

To be honest with you, I have come to know some recent chinese immigrants, some of them were quite successful back in their home land.
Needless to say, they made a big sacrifice to leave so much behind to come to Canada. Whe I asked them why, the simple answer is, " You can never trust the Chinese government" . Their reason to coming here is to make sure their children will have a better future because ther is no better alternative than a free and democratic country, even though it is not perfect.

It is a fact, unfortunately for the Chinese, that despite of its enriched history , culture, and values, the chinese people never had a government they can trust. And I am done with this thread.

 

[bornonaug9]

instead of being obssessed with brining Taiwan down to its kneels ?

The big picture is that

China could use the anti-secession law as a cloak of legality for new crackdowns against separatists in its western province of Xinjiang and in Tibet, he said.

China has already used the U.S.-led war on terror to justify human rights violations in Xinjiang, where ethnic Uighur Muslims are demanding their own homeland. "Now they could justify all the human rights abuses they are carrying out there by saying, 'Hey, this is the law, and these people are violating it,' " Wachman said.

read the full article give a more complete perspective.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/03/05/MNG6PBKQVM1.DTL

 

[bornonaug9]

Do you honestly think the US would foster a new world war over Taiwan? Yes, I know all the rhetoric, but do you think they really would go to war with China in this day and age? I don't. The support of the American people just isn't there. Especially after the Iraq fiasco. The only reason China hasn't gone in is b/c of the huge military disparity. As that gap closes, so too does the amount of time Taiwan remains independent, IMO.

Finally someone get the big picture. You need to ask what US gains going to war with China over Taiwan? The US Administration want to maintain the "status quo". Rice is going to visit China and discuss the new anti-secession law.

 

[bornonaug9]

I was there. I saw racism, prejudice, disrespect for intellectual property, corruption, hypocrisy.

How many time you visit China?
How long did you stay there? A week, a month
When was you there (70's 80's 90's 2000's)? 2000's
In what capacity was you there for? Work, holiday
How many cities did you visit and in what provinces? Southern China

I think you want to eloberate your experience and give more details. You may want to talk about the people you encountered in your last visit and what are their opinions about the current government. Your statement is a generalization. You need to substaintate with your experience. I think you write more than that in the "massage", "strip club" forum. I am not questioning your experience, but not convincing without the details.

 

[bornonaug9]

ignore the troll

So, what is your point? what are you trying to prove?

beefy4me just ignore ice_dog he/she is troll, he can even put his thoughts together. ice_dog must have agenda and post every negative news about China in this forum. Do argue with him but post relevant info for further discussion.

 

[ice_dog]

So, what is your point? what are you trying to prove? Are you saying that its ok to have racism, prejudice and corruption in Canada but not in China?...

Go back to read my post again to get the answer. Don't put words in my mouth, Do make any stupid assumptions.

 

[ice_dog]

beefy4me just ignore ice_dog he/she is troll, he can even put his thoughts together. ice_dog must have agenda and post every negative news about China in this forum. Do argue with him but post relevant info for further discussion.

The point is for you to recognize that the chinese people is getting a raw deal under such a totalitarian regime, the Chinese political system is out-dated. It is un-cool, It sucks big time !

 

[Cinema Face]

Don't forget, Clinton sold China nuclear secrets in exchange for campaign contributions.