The Battle of Okinawa

[dirkd101]

This Saturday, April 1st, marks the anniversary of the Battle of Okinawa.

The invasion fleet and corresponding invasion army, was the biggest to date, even bigger than that of Normandy. I believe this is for the seaborne invasion part only, not including the airborne divisions committed to D-day, so it would be an accurate accounting with 7 divisions being committed to the Okinawa landings, 4 army, 3 marine. The Allied naval forces, with carriers engaged, actually started on March 23, pounding the island with the big guns of the fleet and naval air power. What makes this even more amazing is the fact that the Pacific was the backwater to the war, where the ETO got the lions share of men and materiel, something like only 25% of what went to the ETO.

The battle for the island itself lasted until the 23rd of June. 80+ days of hell, by all accounts. The Japanese lost an estimated 77 000 soldiers killed in the battle. The Americans lost an estimated 12 000 killed. The number for the Americans doesn't include battle loses that happened after the battle. The Americans lost another estimated 70 000 wounded, including all injuries, psychiatric or trauma based wounds.

Such a horrific cost in lives on both sides and it was just another step on the way to the invasion of Japan itself, where it was estimated that the Americans would have lost 1 million battle casualties.

 

[tribunus]

Most people don't realize how brutal things were in the Pacific theater. The Yanks had a huge technological advantage (tanks, air power) yet the Japanese fought to the last man.

 

[Aardvark154]

As I believe I've mentioned before one of the most interesting conversations I've heard were two friends of my parents who married after the war, talking about what it was like during the battle, he was a U.S. Navy Officer on a Destroyer close in shore and she was a teenage civilian on Okinawa.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Is the Battle of Okinawa what we see in the war film, Hacksaw Ridge?

 

[IM469]

This Saturday, April 1st, marks the anniversary of the Battle of Okinawa. The invasion fleet and corresponding invasion army, was the biggest to date, ...with 7 divisions being committed to the Okinawa landings, 4 army, 3 marine. The Allied naval forces, with carriers engaged, actually started on March 23, pounding the island with the big guns of the fleet and naval air power. ... The Japanese lost an estimated 77 000 soldiers killed in the battle. The Americans lost an estimated 12 000 killed.

Or so they would have you believe ! The holocaust, moon landings, 9/11, Sandy Hook, Battle of Okinawa ..... the conspiracy nuts haven't tackled this event yet ?

 

[Aardvark154]

Is the Battle of Okinawa what we see in the war film, Hacksaw Ridge?

Yes it is. Desmond Doss was the first and still one of but only three non-Combatants to have been awarded the Medal of Honor.

 

[Insidious Von]

The Battle of Okinawa could have gone differently if the Japanese had been able to set up their defenses before the Americans were ready.

Is the area where The Yamato sank still a classified zone?

 

[jcpro]

The Battle of Okinawa could have gone differently if the Japanese had been able to set up their defenses before the Americans were ready.

Is the area where The Yamato sank still a classified zone?

It does not matter how much time the Japanese had or not to set up their defenses. By the time of the Okinawa landing, Japan was without air force, navy, oil and every other commodity necessary to wage war. The whole Japan was under constant air assault and the Allies established an effective maritime exclusion zone around the country.

 

[SkyRider]

It does not matter how much time the Japanese had or not to set up their defenses. By the time of the Okinawa landing, Japan was without air force, navy, oil and every other commodity necessary to wage war.

Japan still had 1.3 million troops waging war in China and still occupied major cities like Hing Kong and Singapore.

 

[jcpro]

Japan still had 1.3 million troops waging war in China and still occupied major cities like Hing Kong and Singapore.

Yes, and no way to bring them to the home islands. Besides, in the face of the overwhelming technological disadvantage, those troops were nothing but cannon fodder.

 

[Insidious Von]

I agree jcpro but American reconnaissance finding The Yamato before it reached Okinawa saved 10,000 American lives.

The strategy of Japanese defense of the island rested on the super battleship reaching Okinawa Bay, scuttling itself and aiming its 18' guns at the incoming American Fleet.

The real reason why the Americans dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Soviet Invasion led to the establishment of Kim il Sung becoming dictator of (initially) Korea (1948 - 94).

 

[jcpro]

I agree jcpro but American reconnaissance finding The Yamato before it reached Okinawa saved 10,000 American lives.

The strategy of Japanese defense of the island rested on the super battleship reaching Okinawa Bay, scuttling itself and aiming its 18' guns at the incoming American Fleet.

The real reason why the Americans dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Soviet Invasion led to the establishment of Kim il Sung becoming dictator of (initially) Korea (1948 - 94).

The TenGo was a stupid and unnecessary sacrifice. They sent a fleet, without the air cover, into an area with how many American carriers commanding the waters around the island? Admiral Philips must have been shaking his head in disbelief, in his watery grave.

 

[dirkd101]

The original plan for defense was to have a number of air bases on the island, with a vast air fleet of planes to throw at the American invasion fleet. This obviously didn't happen, but the revision was genius, in not facing the Americans on the beaches, by using the terrain to their benefit, letting the Americans commit, where this use of terrain led to a complete slaughter.

As for the Japanese, they also had a large force still in Japan itself and many planes available for use in one time attacks (kamikaze).

 

[jcpro]

As Claire Chennault said: Japanese lost the war on the day they decided to attack Pearl Harbor.

 

[dirkd101]

As Claire Chennault said: Japanese lost the war on the day they decided to attack Pearl Harbor.

Yamamoto said pretty much the same thing; I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve

 

[SkyRider]

After Japan surrendered, China asked the U.S. what to do with 1.3 million Japanese POW's. The Americans said you have to "repatriate them back to Japan, alive."

 

[thirdcup]

As Claire Chennault said: Japanese lost the war on the day they decided to attack Pearl Harbor.

I remember reading somewhere that the U.S. wanted in, but they needed a reason. So they cut off trade with Japan, basically forcing them into a corner. And Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. I know it sounds like tin foil hat stuff, but I suppose it's possible. I think the US gov't at the time understood that if they sat out this war, it might end in a way that would end up bad for them.

Did anybody see the old Peter Sellers movie "The Mouse that Roared" It was about a small country that was in economic trouble, so they decided to attack the U.S. and after being soundly defeated, they figured the U.S. would give them aid and help them rebuild, like they did with Japan and Western Europe.

I also enjoyed watching him play Chauncey Gardner in Being There.

 

[nottyboi]

I agree jcpro but American reconnaissance finding The Yamato before it reached Okinawa saved 10,000 American lives.

The strategy of Japanese defense of the island rested on the super battleship reaching Okinawa Bay, scuttling itself and aiming its 18' guns at the incoming American Fleet.

The real reason why the Americans dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Soviet Invasion led to the establishment of Kim il Sung becoming dictator of (initially) Korea (1948 - 94).

Yamato would have been SLAUGHTERED by the naval force present at Okinawa. There were 9 allied battleships present at Okinawa.

 

[nottyboi]

Compared to some other battles like Stalingrad or Kursk, Okinawa was not a big deal at all. Those other battles were much larger, more brutal and involved absolutely withering artillery from both sides. Over 75% of casualties were caused by artillery in WWII

 

[dirkd101]

Compared to some other battles like Stalingrad or Kursk, Okinawa was not a big deal at all. Those other battles were much larger, more brutal and involved absolutely withering artillery from both sides. Over 75% of casualties were caused by artillery in WWII

The Battle of Stalingrad was approximately 7 months long and the accounting for the dead is a best estimate, as the Soviets never gave accurate figures, but combined military and civilian deaths are pegged at around 2 million. While these battles were on a large scale compared to Okinawa, the ferocity of battle during the Pacific campaign was unprecedented for such small islands. The numbers of soldiers needed to land in an amphibious assault, establish a beachhead and defeat an entrenched enemy are the key factors that make the battles in the Pacific unique, where large scale maneuver wasn't possible, nor he use of massed tanks was not possible either. The terrain, well used by the Japanese, who held fortified positions. Their fanaticism and will to die for their honour and the honour of their emperor made the battles in the Pacific what they were. A blood bath for both sides.

The Pacific battles were analyzed by the JCS, using casualty figures for both sides, and timelines needed to take objectives during the battle and the subsequent and final victory for an island, in estimating the final battle that would win the war and that was the battle for Japan itself. Okinawa, being part of the Japanese home islands, was not only an essential staging ground for the upcoming invasion for Japan itself, but the ferocity of the Japanese was also gauged in calculating what the battles for Japan itself would be like.

Some interesting reading for some;

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...on-planning-and-the-a-bomb-decision/final.pdf

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...nning-and-the-a-bomb-decision/csi9810001.html

http://theamericanpresident.us/images/projections.pdf