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Team Obama pushes new Quartet statement to avoid Palestinian U.N. bid

onthebottom

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I think the US is on the wrong side of history on this:

Team Obama pushes new Quartet statement to avoid Palestinian U.N. bid
Posted By Josh Rogin Friday, September 16, 2011 - 3:20 PM Share

The Obama administration has been engaged in a last-ditch diplomatic effort to persuade the Palestinians to halt their drive for member-state status at the United Nations. Its latest idea centers around a Middle East Quartet statement that would define the timelines for a beginning and an end to a new round of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

Acting Special Envoy David Hale and NSC Senior Director Dennis Ross have been in the region this week, meeting with everybody from Israeli President Shimon Peres, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, and many others. EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton has been in the Middle East as well, meeting with officials on both sides and with the U.S. envoys.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has been personally involved in the effort. She called Abbas late last week, Ashton on Monday, and Quartet leader Tony Blair on Tuesday.

However, the administration has thus far failed to convince Abbas to halt his statehood drive at the United Nations. "We are going to the Security Council," Abbas said today in Ramallah, setting up a showdown in New York next week that would lead to a U.S. veto. Abbas and Netanyahu are set to give dueling speeches at the U.N. on Friday, Sept. 23.

Behind the scenes, the U.S. and European governments are still working hard to find a path out of this impending diplomatic crisis. According to U.S. officials, European officials, and experts close to the process, the Western powers are considering a new statement from the Middle East Quartet, which is made up of the United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and Russia. Two key items under negotiation are language referring to the Jewish character of Israel and a U.S. proposal to add timelines to the statement calling for new negotiations.

"The timelines are an idea that the Americans have presented," former Congressman Robert Wexler told The Cable. Wexler, now the president of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace, just returned from a four-day trip in the region, where he met with officials on all sides.

The idea is that a new Quartet statement would specify that new Israeli-Palestinian negotiations would begin within four to six weeks -- with a specified end date, either in six months or a year.

"The Palestinians seemed open to it," Wexler said, cautioning that no side had made any commitments to support such a statement. "The Israelis are less excited about the timeline, but they understand the Palestinians can't just have an open timeframe."

If and when the Quartet members can agree on a new statement, there are a number of possibilities about what could happen next. The American hope is that the Quartet statement would be enough for the Palestinians to forego their U.N. bid. Or, if the Palestinians were to submit their bid to the U.N. Security Council but not press for a vote, the issue could be tabled while all sides tried to implement the plan in the new statement.

The Europeans, meanwhile, foresee a path whereby the new Quartet statement could be incorporated into the Palestinian resolution to be introduced at the U.N. General Assembly, if the Palestinians decide to go that route, a European diplomat said.

For Ashton and the Europeans, the General Assembly route represents a compromise, as it would give the Palestinians increased recognition as a non-member observer, short of full statehood status. Ashton has therefore also been negotiating with the Palestinians on a potential resolution in the General Assembly, in the hopes of watering it down as much as possible.

"The day after a Security Council vote, it looks much worse than the day after a General Assembly vote," the European diplomat said.

But for the Obama administration, even a General Assembly vote elevating the Palestinian's status is a non-starter.

"We've tried to have these discussions with [the Obama administration], but they won't talk about it," the European diplomat said about the General Assembly resolution, speculating that the White House is prioritizing its domestic political need to defend the Netanyahu administration. "Maybe from the White House perspective, the more they are isolated with Israel, the better."

Meanwhile, all sides are involved in negotiating over language in the proposed Quartet statement that would acknowledge the Jewish character of the State of Israel. In July, the Quartet got stuck on the Obama administration's insistence that the words "Jewish state" be contained in the resolution. This time, various other formulations are being floated. One of them is to use the phrase, "two states for two peoples, one for the Jewish people and one for the Palestinian people."

The European diplomat said he perceived a break between the White House, which is prioritizing its need to appear strongly aligned with Israel, and the State Department, which is focused more on the fallout around the Arab world that would follow a U.S. veto of Palestinian statehood.

Wexler said such internal differences were natural but that, in the end, President Barack Obama was driving U.S. policy.

"Different parts of the government have different goals," Wexler said. "You have offense, defense, and special teams. They all do different things."

Regardless, the perception in Europe is that the Obama administration is constrained by domestic politics, and that another timeline for negotiations -- an idea that didn't work before -- isn't likely to work this time either.

"This shows how little room the Obama administration has to maneuver," the European diplomat said. "It's a typical Dennis Ross way of getting into procedure when you don't want to get into substance."


Former Middle East Negotiator Aaron David Miller, now with the Woodrow Wilson Center, said that any new Quartet statement would have to have more key elements in order to be worthwhile.

"You would need it to say '1967 borders with swaps' and you would need a significant settlement freeze while the negotiations would take place," he said.

The next few days will be crucial, Miller said, and the sign of success would be if Clinton takes up the issue and applies her own diplomatic power to making the new Quartet statement a key part of the diplomacy.

"Over the next three or four days, the sign this got serious would be the secretary of State getting involved in it," he said. "We're still a long way from knowing with any certainty how real this is."
 

wigglee

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this is getting interesting. The Israelis just want to extend the status quo and find any excuse they can not to negotiate, and the u.s. is in their back pocket ( thanks to the jewish lobby)....how will they continue to shaft the Palestinians without the world's contempt?
 

basketcase

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Guess wig chooses to ignore (the democratically (sic) elected) Hamas statements on refusing to accept this or anything less than the destruction of Israel.
 

wigglee

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Instead of referring to a 2008 article why not simply listen to the words of The head of Hamas a few days ago.

"Haniyeh: We will not recognize Israel"

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=416275

Is that ambiguous in some way.
yes...even your article shows the softening of the hamas position and the continued hard line from israel...

"In May 2011, the parties announced a surprise reconciliation deal brokered by Egypt, but have struggled to reach agreement on many of the key issues, in particular the candidate for Prime Minister in a new unity government.
Shortly after news of the deal broke, Hamas leader Mahmoud Az-Zahhar said Hamas was ready to recognize a Palestinian state "on any part of Palestine," for the first time publicly steering away from prior Hamas demands that the modern Palestinian state must be established "from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea."

Yet Az-Zahhar insisted the group will maintain its refusal to recognize Israel, citing fears of jeopardizing the right of return for Palestinian refugees who have been exiled from the land since 1948 when Israel was recognized by the United Nations.

Israeli officials slammed the unity deal as a "great victory for terrorism," and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu insisted President Mahmoud Abbas must choose between reconciliation with Hamas and peace with Israel.

Negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis have stalled since Israel failed to renew a partial settlement freeze in the West Bank in September 2010."
 

basketcase

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I'll just repost this from a couple days ago.

Al-Bardaweel told the workshop that the consequence of getting the UN to recognize a Palestinian state would also be recognition of Israel's boundaries.

"Going to the UN draws the borders of Israel, which was established on stolen lands and still has no borders," he said.

Abbas' UN bid, he explained, would mean that the Palestinian state would exist only in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the territories captured by Israel in the 1967 war, and not in all of historic Palestine, as Hamas wants.


Moreover, he said, once a Palestinian state is ratified, "the Palestinian resistance won't be allowed to fire one single gunshot at the Israeli occupation."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ical-palestinian-statehood-bid-at-un-1.384466

grog already ignored this since it exposes his lies and I'll assume you will do the same.
 

groggy

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As usual, is it any different then any of Lieberman's rants?
But mostly, would you stop inserting this same stupid and irrelevant quote into any discussion?
The politics of this is going to be really interesting, but if all you want to do is keep repeating this same stupid allegation, I'll just put you on ignore.
Its boring, basketcase.


The US is losing allies backing Israel, its interesting to see how far they'll go.
Already Saudi Arabia is threatening the US, if they veto.
Turkey and Egypt are now no longer in the US' pocket, there are hardly any despots left for them to back.
They don't like Syria, Iran has its reactor running, so bombing them is out of the question, they are still bombing Yemen on occasion.
Iraq wants them out, Afghanistan wants them out, and they can't afford to be in any of those places any more.
Must suck to be running a dying empire.
 

Aardvark154

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The US is losing allies backing Israel, its interesting to see how far they'll go.
Already Saudi Arabia is threatening the US, if they veto.
Which does Saudi Arabia believe is the more important, the U.N. vote going to the General Assembly, or loosing the support of the U.S. - it doesn't seem a very hard choice.
 

groggy

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You'd have to ask them.
How much is American support worth compared to the support of their people and the neighbouring countries.

Prince Turki al-Faisal, Saudi Arabia’s former director of intelligence services and a former ambassador to the US, said in an editorial in The New York Times that Washington may lose all Arab support if it vetoes Palestinian UN membership.
“Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America in the same way it historically has,” al-Faisal said. He said the “special relationship” between his country and the US increasingly would be seen as toxic “by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people.
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/2011/09/18/showdown-looms-over-palestinian-statehood/

There is even talk of the General Assembly passing the motion even with the veto.
There is also talk of this being one of last plays for the PLO, who represent Palestinians and the refugees, vs Fatah who is pushing this and would assume some responsibility but make a Palestinian state lose representation for refugees at the UN at the same time. Not to mention the younger generation who are pushing for an Arab spring movement about equal rights and not about statehood at all.

Check out this article, its really interesting.
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/201191394042383843.html
 

basketcase

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...
But mostly, would you stop inserting this same stupid and irrelevant quote into any discussion?...
Somehow in your Israel hating world, Hamas refusing to accept peace is irrelevant to the peace process?

With brain power like that, please put me on ignore.
 

alexmst

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Somehow in your Israel hating world, Hamas refusing to accept peace is irrelevant to the peace process?

With brain power like that, please put me on ignore.
As I mentioned before, the best solution is for the Palestinians to compromise and say that while they do not personally believe Israel has an historic right to exist, they accept the present reality that it does exist and while they do not like this they still agree not to wage war or commit violent acts against it. Israel can compromise and accept that as good enough and move on from there.
 

groggy

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Hamas, Fatah and the PLO have all stated at some point they will accept Israel's right to exist, what they haven't accepted is Israel as "Jewish".
Agreeing to that is to accept that not being Jewish will mean lesser rights (more so then the 30 laws based on racism in existence already), and giving up the right of return for the 4 or 5 million refugees who are still waiting for the fulfillment of UN resolutions. So its unlikely that 'compromise' will be accepted (even though through the Palestine Papers it was reported that Abbas had already offered to give in on the concession).
 

basketcase

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Exposing grog's lies (or lack of comprehension skills) once again.

Hamas: We may back Palestinian state that does not recognize Israel's existence

Gaza strongman Ismail Haniyeh reiterates criticism of Abbas-led statehood bid at UN, saying no Palestinian leader has the mandate to forfeit 'one inch' of historic Palestine.
...
Speaking to the Palestinian legislative council in Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was quoted by the French news agency AFP as reiterating his movement's opposition to the Palestinian Authority move at the UN, adding however that Hamas would support an independent Palestine on only part of what it considered to be "historic Palestine" if that state would adhere to core Hamas principles.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...oes-not-recognize-israel-s-existence-1.385176

So they will accept a Palestinian state only if they get put in charge and only if it is still allowed to 'liberate' historic Palestine(read destroy Israel).
 

gryfin

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groggy

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Ok, so Hamas doesn't support the UN push, as they say they back 'resistance' as their method.

Doesn't that mean all you supporters of Israel should back the UN push, as Fatah and the PLO have called it the last push for a two state solution, and now it sounds like the only way to take some wind out of Hamas' sails? Support the UN push, keep the peace process alive or defeat it and start watching the youth push for equal rights within one state.

Which of those do you choose?
 

basketcase

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Ok, so Hamas doesn't support the UN push, as they say they back 'resistance' as their method.

Doesn't that mean all you supporters of Israel should back the UN push, as Fatah and the PLO have called it the last push for a two state solution, and now it sounds like the only way to take some wind out of Hamas' sails? Support the UN push, keep the peace process alive or defeat it and start watching the youth push for equal rights within one state.

Which of those do you choose?
Negotiated peace?

Of course that would mean someone in the Palestinian world would have to do something to get Hamas to accept that peace (since it seems that democratic principles aren't valued by Hamas).


Nice to see you realize that Hamas is a terrorist organization.
 

onthebottom

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Perhaps Abbas can deliver what Hamas has not.... in any event I think a veto by the US is not in US interests.

OTB
 

groggy

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Hamas realizes that Abbas has wasted years of time offering up everything and getting nothing in return. Its a bit of a mess, though.
The PLO is still the representative of the Palestinian people, though has no real other power, though they are the only ones presently speaking for the refugees.
Fatah is corrupt and trying to hang onto power in the wake of the Palestinian Papers, though the UN push is probably the last attempt at a two state solution.
Hamas has PR problems and is starting to lose the will of Gaza, though they are the present only voice of Palestinian resistance.

The US is now officially in the pocket of AIPAC and Israel, despite the fact that the US is most likely the ones funding AIPAC.
Nethanyu is barely clinging to power, and his moves have lead to Israel's only popular revolt.
Lieberman is a racist idiot who is holding the balance of power in Israel.
Israel's government is corrupt as well, how many ex-war criminals and presidents are there in trouble these days?

Israel and the Palestinians are also on the edge of their own Arab spring revolutions.
Israel has killed the peace process and has brought this all on, as they have at the same time pissed off there last allies in the region.
The US has lost any credibility in the middle east, backing the despots like Ghadafi (who he sent folks to for torture).

So what happens?
Anyone have any good guesses?
 
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