Tankless HW Tanks??

[BallzDeep]

I thought there was a thread a while ago on them but I can't find it. My bro wants to install one and me being the family handyman, he wants my advice but I don't know much/anything about them.

I know their expensive but that's about it, don't know about efficiency and savings etc. Tried telling him the cost of buying/installing one would take a long time to make back in your bill. Anyone have any experience with them.
Or can anyone find the thread?

He says the one he's looking at is around a grand, I told him by the time it's installed, it could be 1500-2000$, plumber, larger wire to feed it, bigger breaker etc., but he's not interested in listening.

 

[BallzDeep]

He's getting an electric one, I tried telling him basically the same stuff but he won't listen so he can do whatever he wants, I could care less.

He doesn't want to pay the rental on the tank, I got rid of my rental, bought a used one for sixty bucks and it's fine.

 

[Worf]

I started a post last year on this topic. Here is a reply I got from a fellow terbite on the topic:

I'm in commercial HVACR.
The Rinnai tankless model for residential use would likely require some plumbing & gas piping alterations to your house, neither are difficult to do. Installation is very simple, the unit literally hangs on the wall and is direct vent.
The biggest problem with the unit is the temperature rise vs. flow rate. It'll work beautifully for 10 months, but on those bitchin' cold days of late January thru February, it'll give you problems.
I've been looking for the service manual Rinnai gave me when I took their course last year, unfortunately I can't find it, but if I recall at about 70 degrees F temperature rise the flow rate drops to about 3gpm. So on a really cold day, when the water coming into the unit is 52-56F, you will either have to turn the desired temperature DOWN on the unit to maintain an adequate flowrate, or get used to showering in a slow drizzle if you like hot water.

The units are fantastic; part availabilty isn't an issue, they are very simple to service & maintain. But they just aren't that great for a Canadian winter.
Look into a Polaris water heater, they're great! 33g tank @ 100K BTUH, and about 98% efficiency. It can go from stone cold 45F water to 130F in less than 6 minutes. Enbridge/direct energy will only supply them if you already have one, and they are about $50/month to rent, and about $1700 to buy new, if you can find them.
Rental water heaters are the best bet for most residential applications though.

I eventually got Direct Energy to replace my old tank water heater rather than getting a tankless, since they did it for free (with a replacement charge). It's working fine so far.

 

[Worf]

I thought there was a thread a while ago on them but I can`t find it. QUOTE]

Here is the thread

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=207908

 

[BallzDeep]

All I know is I replaced my electric rental one with my own used one and have never had a problem, hot water all the time, and for the 10$ a month I might save by getting a tankless one, it's not worth it. Nothing worse than having hot water problems.

It's a big expense for something that there's still a lot of questions about.

 

[oldjones]

Bought a gas combo domestic hot water and heating hot water last September. Baxi Luna. Still haven't compared gas costs over the previous winter and last one, but it certainly wasn't more than the old boiler and conventional gas-fired tank.

No problems showering on the coldest day, and it takes only a litre of water flowing cold before the hotwater arrives at the tap—at it's max temp. And we never have to think about showering after running the dishes and a laundry.

But the advice I've had is that electric units cannot transfer heat to the water as fast as gas, so the start up flow/time may be longer. On the other hand yer bro won't be competing for natural gas w/ Dalton's new gas-fired generators.

The HW heater it replaced was a seven year-old purchase. Back then the rental rate added up to the purchase price in just under five years, so I'd had two years of banking the rental amount and no regrets about saying goodbye to the tank.

 

[BallzDeep]

Sounds like you also heat your house with it so it is probably worth while, for strictly hot water I don't see the benefits.

 

[oldjones]

Unless you have some sort of timer, you're heating hotwater with a conventional tank twenty-four hours a day, all night long, and all day while you're at work, just so you can have hot water when you get home.

It can run out if you empty the tank using too much at once, and if it's been sitting awhile, the first lot you draw off isn't at max temp.

We only heat the hot water when we want it, and only while we use it. Never runs out, always at max temp. Those seem clear advantages to me, but I needed the boiler replacement to justify the upfront cost.

The house heating,s harder to judge as nothing much has changed: old medium-efficiency boiler replaced by high-efficiency, but it still cycles on and off when Mr. Thermostat tells it to (although now Thermie's on a setback timer) so the firing pattern's pretty much the same, and the savings are mostly small efficiency percentages.

Saved floorspace w/o the tank and looking to recoup some rebate money from the feds.

 

[Rockslinger]

Are there any "real" Europeans on this Board. Apparently, the Europeans have had decades long experience with tankless water heaters.

When my conventional water heater died last year, I did ask about the tankless and was told something like $3,000 plus they punch another hole in my wall. I decided to rent a conventional for like $12 a month (although I swore they told me $8 over the phone). They also wanted $75 to take my old tank away but I convinced them to simply take it to the curb for free and the "savengers" took it away in less than a couple of days.

 

[Rockslinger]

Saved floorspace w/o the tank

Is this why they are so popular in Europe (and Asia?)?