Sundin must waive his no-trade option.

[smuddan]

I'd like to start by saying that I've been a die hard Leafs fan for the past 30 years living in Toronto and I'm not ashame to admit it.

IN my opinion Sundin has been one of the best Leafs captains and I'm a big fan of his. I would really like to see him back next year and finish his career as a Maple Leaf captain.

Having said that, I don't think anyone would argue that this Leaf team has to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up. Sundin by waving his no-trade will certainly help to bring at least one or two good young players.

I've heard that he doesn't want to leave as he bleeds blue and white and wouldn't feel right to win a Cup with any other team than the Leafs.

That sounds noble and any die hard Leafs fan would love to hear. The problem though, with his cast of players it will be doubtful if they'll even make the playoffs in next few years, let alone winning the cup.

The best scenerio would be to trade him for some good young players and resign him for next year.

If he's really loyal to this team and to the fans of this city, he should agree to waive the no-trade and at least that will give us fans some hope about the rebuilding process. If he does so, I will say that he's the best Leafs captain that we've ever had.

If he insists on staying for the rest of the year, I really doubt there's any hope the Leafs will resign him next year, not only that it would piss them off, but it wouyld not make any sense in having him back or they'll be back to where they started the last few years.


Smuddan

 

[Herodotus]

You should agree to waive your rights to continue your contracted employment where you presently work, move to a new city for 2-4 months and then maybe come back on our terms if we let you. Doesn't sound that appealing to me.

Seriously, Sundin's a grown man and should make whatever decision is right for him. If the Leafs didn't want him to have a no-trade clause, they shouldn't have included it in his contract (and McCabe's, Tucker's and the others they erroneously gave it to.)

Why should Mats disrupt his life for the mistakes this organization has repeatedly made over a number of years?

 

[Dartman]

That tells me Sundin is playing for money and not a Stanley Cup if he doen't not want to go to a contender and win it. Is it not all about the ring.

 

[lenharper]

I think it is about the team -- not about money and what joy is there is winning "the ring" if you are simply a rental player for a team that could have very well won it without you anyway. Also what kind of pride is there in winning 'the ring" when you show up late to the party and have nothing to do with how the team got there in the first place.

not saying sundin has a chance at ever getting close to a stanley cup while in toronto but i do in some way admire his refusal to sell himself off to the highest bidder for a chance to win something he will never have truly earned.

 

[roxyfan]

Would't feel right winning a cup with another team. Sounds like the married guy who says he would not feel right about banging a hot babe other than his wife or GF. Sundin will be traded. Mats is on bad drugs if he thinks the Leafs will win a cup in the next 10 or 20 years.

I am a Habs fan - would love to see Mats in the red, white and blue.

 

[smuddan]

You should agree to waive your rights to continue your contracted employment where you presently work, move to a new city for 2-4 months and then maybe come back on our terms if we let you. Doesn't sound that appealing to me.

Seriously, Sundin's a grown man and should make whatever decision is right for him. If the Leafs didn't want him to have a no-trade clause, they shouldn't have included it in his contract (and McCabe's, Tucker's and the others they erroneously gave it to.)

Why should Mats disrupt his life for the mistakes this organization has repeatedly made over a number of years?

That's fine. He has every right to stay put, but don't mislead us to believe that he only wants to win the cup in Toronto as there will absolutely be no chance for the Leafs to win the cup if they don't dismantle and rebuild the team from ground up. Probably monetary compensation would change his mind and deservedly so he should get compensated for having to make a move, but I just find it hyprocritical for him to say that he only wanted to win the cup in Toronto when there is absolutely no chance if he stays.

It's true that the previous manager made numerous blunders, and that's why he was fired. I don't think they can get rid of Patti and our only hope is Cliff . If Sundin doesn't go, they will have no chance of trading any of those players who have no-trade contracts. If he goes, that may have a impact on the likes of McCabe/Kubina/Tucker/Blade etc.

His contract was signed a few years back and he has been paid as a top player all these years. Fans here love and adore him and it's time he shows us if he really apppreciates.

 

[Brownie69]

His contract was signed a few years back and he has been paid as a top player all these years. Fans here love and adore him and it's time he shows us if he really apppreciates.

A player shows his appreciation by going out and performing every night for the fans...... He doesn't owe the fans anything more than that. He's been great to the City but the fans do not own him and he can do whatever he likes within the terms of his contract.

Why don't we ask every player on the leafs, who the fans cheer for, to take a home team discount next time they sign their contracts as a sign of appreciation for the fans? Cause its ludicrous... The point is that shows of appreciation have to end somewhere and I don't think Sundin must show his appreciation by waiving his no trade clause.

I agree he should be traded for the betterment of the Leafs, but its up to Sundin, period. Who knows, maybe he's thinking about retirement and therefore this is it for him as a leaf.

 

[smuddan]

I guess I didn't make my point clear.

I would have no problem if Sundin retires after this year and I would still regard him as one of the best Leafs captain ever.

The way he's playing this year, I don't think he'lll retire. I think he can still be a very good player for 1 or 2 years. I think he's looking for the best deal he can get when he becomes a free agent, and I have no problem with that either.

But his saying the reason he didn't want to be traded was because he would only want to win the Cup with Toronto, was just hypocritical. He wanted the fans to believe how loyal he was to the Leafs and that if he stayed we would still have a chance to win the Cup with him as the captain.

Is there anybody that stupid to believe that ?


Smuddan

 

[Neverenuff$]

Maybe Sundin has gotten used to hitting the Golf course by April , Its not like he has a lot of playoff games logged

 

[Brownie69]

I guess I didn't make my point clear.

I would have no problem if Sundin retires after this year and I would still regard him as one of the best Leafs captain ever.

The way he's playing this year, I don't think he'lll retire. I think he can still be a very good player for 1 or 2 years. I think he's looking for the best deal he can get when he becomes a free agent, and I have no problem with that either.

But his saying the reason he didn't want to be traded was because he would only want to win the Cup with Toronto, was just hypocritical. He wanted the fans to believe how loyal he was to the Leafs and that if he stayed we would still have a chance to win the Cup with him as the captain.

Is there anybody that stupid to believe that ?


Smuddan

You have to read between the lines with Sundin because its obviously not that he believes that he'll win a cup with Toronto. What he's really saying in no certain terms is "I'm happy in Toronto, I love the City and I don't want to leave even if its for a chance to play for the Cup elsewhere. Its Toronto or bust because I love it here and don't want to move."

 

[smuddan]

You have to read between the lines with Sundin because its obviously not that he believes that he'll win a cup with Toronto. What he's really saying in no certain terms is "I'm happy in Toronto, I love the City and I don't want to leave even if its for a chance to play for the Cup elsewhere. Its Toronto or bust because I love it here and don't want to move."

That was what I was trying to say, if he really wants to be playing for the Leafs, he has got to waive that no-trade clause.

Just think about it, if he doesn't waive, would Leafs management still sign him for another year or two ? I don't think so.

I would say one of the main reasons they hired Cliff Fletcher was to talk Sundin into waiving his no-trade and then trade him for propects or draft choices. Otherwise they would have just let JF stayed for the rest of the year and hire his replacement at season end.

I was pleading Sundin to waive his no-trade as a die hard Leafs fan as I could see no other way to start the rebuilding process and also have him back next year.

But if he doesn't waive his no-trade, I don't want to see him back next year.

 

[21pro]

tell me WHY DOES SUNDIN HAVE TO PAY FOR JFJr's MISTAKES?

talk about being disloyal to your franchise player... only in toronto.

 

[eenthusiast]

tell me WHY DOES SUNDIN HAVE TO PAY FOR JFJr's MISTAKES?

talk about being disloyal to your franchise player... only in toronto.

I agree with this completely. Leafs management/ownership does NOT deserve to be bailed out by one who is just an (very well paid) employee.

Leafs ownership signed his deal knowing what it meant, Sundin's been great for the Leafs, if he's not good enough at his age to be great anymore, and the team suffers for it then it's not his fault.

You can't go back on your deals, if you want Sundin to waive, pay him what it's worth to him to do it.

It doesn't matter if he could win a Cup elsewhere, it's his choice, he deserves it.

 

[Hard Idle]

Maybe he would go, maybe he wouldn't.

Can't really go by what he says in public. I mean he's wearing the "C" on this team - what would it do to both his public image and his credibility in the Leafs' dressing room, or any future team's dressing room, if he were look eager to bail out?

I'm sure Sundin has passed the message through the grapevine so that other GMs know if he's really open to moving and under which terms.

If the Leafs deal Sundun and get decent value in return, you can bet that the GM who aquired him had prior assurances that Sundin would be comming in with a positive attitude about the move.

It would be odd if he blocks any move, that he would be unwilling to disrupt even 3 months of this "bliss" in Toronto for one more shot at a Cup. It could be that at this age, and having won an Olympic Gold, he has simply outgrown the singleminded obsession with the Stanly Cup.

 

[Insidious Von]

If JFJ's agenda as GM was to discredit The Board, then his tenure has been a smashing success!

Mats will most definitely be traded; he is the only player on the current roster that could deliver a decent return. As for the rest, there is no point in trading them, you're only going to get Mark Bells in return. The Leafs are going to get worse - especially if they go on a mini winning streak that pushes them out of a lottery pick - and the players with no trade options should be made to play out their contracts.

 

[A-ROD]

The Leafs biggest mistake was made after the lockout. At that time they could have bought out any or all contracts and started fresh. As it stands, with the proper hockey minds running the team (that never happens) they are looking at 3 to 5 years before they could be a serious ontender.
New ownership is the best solution. A single owner, who is more interested in winning, not a corporation who only cares about the bottom line.

Sundin is the first stepping stone in rebuilding.

 

[Neverenuff$]

New ownership is the best solution. A single owner, who is more interested in winning, not a corporation who only cares about the bottom line.

.

It will be interesting watching Edmonton

Now back to the Sundin soap !

 

[smuddan]

tell me WHY DOES SUNDIN HAVE TO PAY FOR JFJr's MISTAKES?

talk about being disloyal to your franchise player... only in toronto.

We're talking about rebuilding the Leafs for the future, what mistakes were made by JFJ were irrelevent now. Wake up from your bad dreams Leaf fans and think positively for the future.

The team has been playing so badly the last two seasons and not only Management is to blame, but all the coaches and players have to share the blame too.

Paul Maurice has to go, any player that can bring a return of good prospects or high draft choices has to be traded. I don't see any other way that we can have a competitive team in the near future.

Sundin has been playing well, and he has been paid well and loved by many fans here. I don't know how you would define a "franchise player" but I don't think it just means the captain or the best player on the team, a la a bad team.

We haven't had a competitive team since the Gilmour days when Cliff was the manager, and if you put all the blame on JFJ, then you should be be happy that we've got Trader Cliff back and he may be able to remedy some of the JFJ's mistakes.

Sundin wants us to believe that he's so loyal that he only wants to win the Cup here, and if that's true I don't see why he wouldn't want to have a better team to play for when he comes back next year.

If you are a Sundin fan, then you should hope he'd waive his no-trade, otherwise I don't think the Leafs will bring him back.

Smuddan

 

[21pro]

if he leaves, why would he come back?

the only thing Sundin leaving would do is clear 5.5mil in cap space. for what? i got something to let you in on. Sundin's 5.5 mil is the best deal in price for performance in the entire NHL. It would be a stupid, stupid move.\

It is rediculous that you leafs fans think that by not only trading away our best player, but best contract it will somehow work in the ebb and flow of business to our advantage when you are stuck with other NMC and NTC on the roster of much less deserving players? 3 first round pics, 2 ryan shannons and 1 luc bourdon is not going to ice a better team than a first line center with Sundin on it would.

but, hey, don't say i told you so. Never get rid of a top league wide franchise centre unless he A) wants to be moved or B) you can't afford him. Sundin does not fit in this category. Boston is still flirting with trying (unsuccessfully) to get as strong as they were with Joe Thornton on their team- and San Jose paid a huge, huge price to achieve that talent. but, it still was the wrong move for Boston. Leafs should learn something here.

 

[Neverenuff$]

All good points, however .. how much longer will Sundin play .? a larger Danger is losing Sundin to retirement or free agency for nothing in return.

To be cruel, the Leafs have lost successfully and had little playoff success with Sundin , the only real asset they have to make a change is (trading) Sundin .,