speeding tickets: do cops still need to appear in court?

[Inferno]

I always challenge speeding tickets. It's not so much the cost of the ticket itself as the impact a ticket will have on my auto insurance. That, plus I believe that speed enforcement is an inherently arbitrary - and thus unfair - form of revenue generation masquerading as a safety initiative.

But enough about that. What I want to know is whether the cops still need to appear in court if you plead not guilty. I've gotten off numerous tickets in the past when the cop didn't show up, but I recently heard they no longer had to appear for the case to proceed.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

[landscaper]

The constable does have to appear as there would not be a witness to the ticket if he did not. What has happened is the the cop does not have to appear until a trial date is set so the old show up see if he is here and ask for a dismissal does not work anymore they just hold it over to teh trial date.

 

[Inferno]

The constable does have to appear as there would not be a witness to the ticket if he did not. What has happened is the the cop does not have to appear until a trial date is set so the old show up see if he is here and ask for a dismissal does not work anymore they just hold it over to teh trial date.

OK, but my strategy was - and is - to send someone in my place on the trial date.

If the cop wasn't there, the person I sent would just pose as me (the courts never asked for ID) and the ticket would be dismissed. If the cop was there, the person would explain to the judge that I am ill or out of the country and would request a new trial date.

I'm sure many people have used this strategy. Are you saying it will no longer work?

 

[danmand]

Always Always plead not gulity.

First step is go the courthouse before the 15 days (actually you have about 30) and ask to see a court rep for what is called First Attendance. At that time you can actually negotiate the charge of speeding down to a reasonable level if you have any kind of excuse at all or even if you dont. It works for speeding and some other offenses where there is wiggle room. Doesnt work for all offences such as ignoring a sign and such.

If you are happy with the negotiation at this time, fine take it and run. If you don't like it, or they don't give you anything, then you are free to ask for a trial and you intend to plead not gulity. You will get a trial date that is at least 6 months later and most likely a year later. When the trial date arrives go to the court. If the officer is not there, the charge will be dismissed. If he/she is there then you still have a chance to bargain it down with the prosecutor and officer.
Absolute worst case is you have wasted some time and get the fine and points you had coming to you. Many many times you will get off completely free. I know this from lots of first hand experience.

Rojack

Not all jurisdictions have the "first Attendence" system, however, I just called the
crown prosecutor and made a deal over the phone. (this was Brantford).

As I reported earlier, there were more policemen in the courtroom than
charged people, so forget about the policeman not showing up (in Brantford).

 

[Gyaos]

I always challenge speeding tickets. It's not so much the cost of the ticket itself as the impact a ticket will have on my auto insurance. That, plus I believe that speed enforcement is an inherently arbitrary - and thus unfair - form of revenue generation masquerading as a safety initiative. But enough about that. What I want to know is whether the cops still need to appear in court if you plead not guilty. I've gotten off numerous tickets in the past when the cop didn't show up, but I recently heard they no longer had to appear for the case to proceed. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Depending where you got the ticket, be aware of the process of having a hearing with a magistrate (not a judge) in which someone representing the department shows up, like a pre-trial. They try to get you to admit going "just a little over" the limit rather than what's stated, that's how they nail you. By self-admitting. If you pass that by saying you were doing the speed limit, it's forwarded to trail.

The other process, is direct to the judge, bypassing the hearing. That way the officer has to show up. If the officer does show up, judges usually side with the officer, so you have to present all the evidence possible and trip him up. Usual result, "I'm going to uphold the charge, but will grant an appeal". In other words they let you appeal the appeal and you pay for the second appeal. Ridiculous, but it does happen.

If the officer doesn't show up, or a lawyer representing the force does, it's just based on self admittance. If you admit no and present your story that doesn't show an admittance to anything, and I mean do not say "I was just doing 40km in a 35km zone", you'll get off and found "not responsible". But just admitting to a little "infraction" (than what took place (if it did)) nails you and then the insurance business of the real criminals nails you too.

OK, but my strategy was - and is - to send someone in my place on the trial date.

Bad idea. You will lose, BIG. In fact the court can tack on an additional fine (or worse, depending on laws in each constituency) for not showing up as the defendant. Traffic violations vs the police are not civil, based on a preponderance.

Gyaos Baltar.

 

[Stoo]

Here's a thought... consider driving somewhere near the limit or the "flow"... There's an unbelievable number of bad drivers on the roads. Most are bad because they drive at excessive speeds on very busy highways.

I can't count the number of times when I have almost been in, or at least close to an accident, that was the result of some asshole driving 40 over or more.

 

[Aardvark154]

This is not a comment about Ontario. However, as a general statement about traffic courts the police normally tell the Crown in advance what cases they don't care about.

Further to the above, would you turn up if: a) you were paid for being in court b) you knew that your boss was going to give you a white knuckle screaming if you didn't c) the Crown was probably going to subpoena you for every single one of your cases in the future if you didn't?

The truth of the matter is as Danmand has posted if you did it - and face it almost all of us in fact did, then seek a plea with the crown.

 

[The Bandit]

You didn't say you weren't guilty...just pay the ticket and suck it up!

Your the kind of guy that drags things on in the courts, and then a drunk driver gets off because it took too long.

 

[SandStorM]

Always Always plead not gulity.

First step is go the courthouse before the 15 days (actually you have about 30) and ask to see a court rep for what is called First Attendance. At that time you can actually negotiate the charge of speeding down to a reasonable level if you have any kind of excuse at all or even if you dont. It works for speeding and some other offenses where there is wiggle room. Doesnt work for all offences such as ignoring a sign and such.

If you are happy with the negotiation at this time, fine take it and run. If you don't like it, or they don't give you anything, then you are free to ask for a trial and you intend to plead not gulity. You will get a trial date that is at least 6 months later and most likely a year later. When the trial date arrives go to the court. If the officer is not there, the charge will be dismissed. If he/she is there then you still have a chance to bargain it down with the prosecutor and officer.
Absolute worst case is you have wasted some time and get the fine and points you had coming to you. Many many times you will get off completely free. I know this from lots of first hand experience.

Rojack

Rojack, may i have a word with you in PM ? You say you know this lots from first hand experience. I may need your help on something. thanks

 

[Inferno]

Always Always plead not gulity.

First step is go the courthouse before the 15 days (actually you have about 30) and ask to see a court rep for what is called First Attendance. At that time you can actually negotiate the charge of speeding down to a reasonable level if you have any kind of excuse at all or even if you dont. It works for speeding and some other offenses where there is wiggle room. Doesnt work for all offences such as ignoring a sign and such.

If you are happy with the negotiation at this time, fine take it and run. If you don't like it, or they don't give you anything, then you are free to ask for a trial and you intend to plead not gulity. You will get a trial date that is at least 6 months later and most likely a year later. When the trial date arrives go to the court. If the officer is not there, the charge will be dismissed. If he/she is there then you still have a chance to bargain it down with the prosecutor and officer.
Absolute worst case is you have wasted some time and get the fine and points you had coming to you. Many many times you will get off completely free. I know this from lots of first hand experience.

Rojack

Bingo. This is the way it has worked for me in the past - and I've gotten off quite a few tickets, probably a half dozen.

I just wanted to make sure this system was still in effect, as I had heard that cops no longer had to attend the trials. (Not sure how that would work, since the Crown relies on cops for evidence, but anyway...)

Thanks again for the advice, TERBites.