Some silver lining in the upcoming prostitution laws.

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Vs_81

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May 26, 2011
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Call me optimistic but along with lots of negatives I see some positives on the new set of laws too. Don't label me as conservative cause I am anything but conservative. So currently outcall is legal and incall is not because of the "found in bawdy house" provision. But with new law both outcall and incall are illegal but unless the provider says that you paid for sex or communicated for sex you are not doing anything illegal cause no "found in bawdy house" clause.

Another thing is legit agencies like PK are currently considered breaking the law because of "living on avails of prostitution" but in new set of laws they are legal as long as someone proves that they communicated for sexual services or paid for sex work. Once again if the agency and provider don't turn against each other they are not breaking any law (absence of living on avails clause). If you will be found at agency you will say that you are paying for spending time. Neither agency nor you broke the law.

So I guess the new set of laws will be better for clients as long as the won't piss off providers or agencies, what you guys say? Am I missing something on the above two examples? And I am talking about legit providers and agencies, of course it will be open season for extortionists and blackmailers because of the obvious reasons. But staying with legit providers and agencies will be safer than current set of laws. Need legal opinion on that.
 
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GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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Vs_81 said:
Call me optimistic but along with lots of negatives I see some positives on the new set of laws too. Don't label me as conservative cause I am anything but conservative. So currently outcall is legal and incall is not because of the "found in bawdy house" provision. But with new law both outcall and incall are illegal but unless the provider says that you paid for sex or communicated for sex you are not doing anything illegal cause no "found in bawdy house" clause.

Another thing is legit agencies like PK are currently considered breaking the law because of "living on avails of prostitution" but in new set of laws they are legal as long as someone proves that they communicated for sexual services or paid for sex work. Once again if the agency and provider don't turn against each other they are not breaking any law (absence of living on avails clause). If you will be found at agency you will say that you are paying for spending time. Neither agency nor you broke the law.

So I guess the new set of laws will be better for clients as long as the won't piss off providers or agencies, what you guys say? Am I missing something on the above two examples? And I am talking about legit providers and agencies, of course it will be open season for extortionists and blackmailers because of the obvious reasons. But staying with legit providers and agencies will be safer than current set of laws. Need legal opinion on that.
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You should do more reading.

Living off the avails has been re-worded under the 'Material Benefits' provision.

I don't know exactly if the 'found in' law has morphed into something else, but under the new law, it will an offence for a 'commercial enterprise' to materially benefit (so similar to bawdy house, except I haven't seen nor recall if there's a new 'found in' law).
 
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out4fun

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Jan 8, 2008
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I'm thinking of advertising myself as a prostiute on backpage, so that if it ever comes down to a blackmail he-said -she-said, I'll claim that I'm the one being exploited by all those perverted young ladies.
 
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Vs_81

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May 26, 2011
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out4fun said:
I'm thinking of advertising myself as a prostiute on backpage, so that if it ever comes down to a blackmail he-said -she-said, I'll claim that I'm the one being exploited by all those perverted young ladies.
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A simple phone record will reveal that you contacted the lady first. Avoid unknown providers and you would be safe, even in incalls situation which is illegal in current laws.
 
C

Capital Amatuer

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2004
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out4fun said:
I'm thinking of advertising myself as a prostiute on backpage, so that if it ever comes down to a blackmail he-said -she-said, I'll claim that I'm the one being exploited by all those perverted young ladies.
Click to expand...

Hummm... let's expand on this. What if you handed over $20.00 more that the fee. Then the lady hands you back $20.00 You're paying her and she's paying you. Aren't you now both equally exposed. Never mind about who's getting the bargain or better deal. Something to think about, no ?
 
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out4fun

Active member
Jan 8, 2008
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Capital Amatuer said:
Hummm... let's expand on this. What if you handed over $20.00 more that the fee. Then the lady hands you back $20.00 You're paying her and she's paying you. Aren't you now both equally exposed. Never mind about who's getting the bargain or better deal. Something to think about, no ?
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I'd just be paying for her time. She could pay to exploit me for my sexual services....and if she did, I might highly recommend her as a potential client to my other fellow prostitues.
 
D

DukeSSk

Member
Jan 27, 2013
301
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Vs_81 said:
Call me optimistic but along with lots of negatives I see some positives on the new set of laws too. Don't label me as conservative cause I am anything but conservative. So currently outcall is legal and incall is not because of the "found in bawdy house" provision. But with new law both outcall and incall are illegal but unless the provider says that you paid for sex or communicated for sex you are not doing anything illegal cause no "found in bawdy house" clause.

Another thing is legit agencies like PK are currently considered breaking the law because of "living on avails of prostitution" but in new set of laws they are legal as long as someone proves that they communicated for sexual services or paid for sex work. Once again if the agency and provider don't turn against each other they are not breaking any law (absence of living on avails clause). If you will be found at agency you will say that you are paying for spending time. Neither agency nor you broke the law.

So I guess the new set of laws will be better for clients as long as the won't piss off providers or agencies, what you guys say? Am I missing something on the above two examples? And I am talking about legit providers and agencies, of course it will be open season for extortionists and blackmailers because of the obvious reasons. But staying with legit providers and agencies will be safer than current set of laws. Need legal opinion on that.
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Thing is that LE isn't clueless about the non-SW part of this hobby. Same goes for hotels. They probably can't provide concrete evidence of the act/exchange of consideration as you alluded to, but let's face it. They could cause you grief if they really feel like it.

Speaking of agencies, seems like PK is confident in the future. They're advertising December specials. That being said, back during Jason's reign, wasn't there a LE officer getting a bit hands-on with the girls in terms of reaching out to them and visits? There's a discussion about it here somewhere.

As for Explore-Her, they've added 4-5 girls to their roster these past several weeks with someone on schedule post-December 6, so it seems they're also marching along.

Has anyone chatted with either agency about their plans?
 
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Titalian

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Jugo

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Sep 28, 2011
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Vs_81

Member
May 26, 2011
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Another silver lining is you will see lot more SPs showing their faces just to counter the fear that an independent SP can be an undercover cop (because in new set of laws it is legal to be selling sex). It's better to see a face pic than getting a surprise when door opens. Actually I saw the trend is already started and I see more and more ladies posting some sort of face pic already.
 
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MarkSt09

Member
Feb 17, 2014
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Not sure how showing the face is going to help.
a) Could be a female cop
b) Could be someone working with a cop
c) Cowboy kennys website is here to show that fake pictures is always out there...
 
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LikeRedHeads

Active member
Jul 8, 2011
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A female cop will not show her face. It's like an undercover cop showing that he is undercover (nonsense).
If a lot of SPs are showing their faces, that could be the solution and we will have to boycott other SPs not showing their faces.
As for the fake pics, when you arrive you can leave saying that you made a mistake in the room number; they can't arrest you for that (given you don't have the phone that you communicated with the SP with you). No evidence whatsoever for them to arrest you. When you visit an SP make always sure you don't have the phone with you, because if you are arrested they can confiscate the phone and use it as evidence against you.
 
V

Vs_81

Member
May 26, 2011
345
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LikeRedHeads said:
A female cop will not show her face. It's like an undercover cop showing that he is undercover (nonsense).
If a lot of SPs are showing their faces, that could be the solution and we will have to boycott other SPs not showing their faces.
As for the fake pics, when you arrive you can leave saying that you made a mistake in the room number; they can't arrest you for that (given you don't have the phone that you communicated with the SP with you). No evidence whatsoever for them to arrest you. When you visit an SP make always sure you don't have the phone with you, because if you are arrested they can confiscate the phone and use it as evidence against you.
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You are exactly right. While many people are still confused some people like you understand the dynamics of new law very clearly. You either don't carry your phone or use a texting software that you can log out before entering into the room. LE cannot force you to log in a locked phone without warrant so forcing you to login into texting software is almost impossible without a warrant. Another thing to be noted is if that "found in bawdy house" provision existed they could charge you just for knocking that door but in absence of that provision and any evidence of communication LE cannot charge you for anything if you decide to walk away after seeing the face of the undercover cop.
 
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Vs_81

Member
May 26, 2011
345
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If a lot of SPs are showing their faces, that could be the solution and we will have to boycott other SPs not showing their faces.
Click to expand...
Even if it's not a formal boycott it will happen automatically to new girls entering the business. SPs with reviews and with agencies don't have to worry but rest of the new comers will see their businesses drastically impacted that they will either show face pic, join an agency or just leave the business at all. I know I won't risk seeing a new girl without any reviews or face pic, who knows she turn out to be a cop.
 
M

MarkSt09

Member
Feb 17, 2014
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Vs_81 said:
You are exactly right. While many people are still confused some people like you understand the dynamics of new law very clearly. You either don't carry your phone or use a texting software that you can log out before entering into the room. LE cannot force you to log in a locked phone without warrant so forcing you to login into texting software is almost impossible without a warrant. Another thing to be noted is if that "found in bawdy house" provision existed they could charge you just for knocking that door but in absence of that provision and any evidence of communication LE cannot charge you for anything if you decide to walk away after seeing the face of the undercover cop.
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You can keep your phone with you, actually. In some situations she can text you the wrong info by mistake and you might have to use your phone to contact again.

My solution is: As long as you have a smart phone, download the app called "pinger". Create an account and you will be given a random phone number, you can text and call girls through the app and instead of showing your number, will show the Pinger number. When you get close to the location, just delete the app or hide it.

The phone numbers won't match and you will be safe.

---

One more thing, are you also sure they can't ask you to check your phone? I don't know how many times while flying to the US or back to Canada, I've seen people getting their belongings checked - laptops, cellphones... - if they think you are up to something. I'm not sure if it's just when crossing borders, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 
V

Vs_81

Member
May 26, 2011
345
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One more thing, are you also sure they can't ask you to check your phone? I don't know how many times while flying to the US or back to Canada, I've seen people getting their belongings checked - laptops, cellphones... - if they think you are up to something. I'm not sure if it's just when crossing borders, but I wouldn't be surprised.
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I am 100% sure the LE can check your phone at random searches but if your phone is locked they cannot force you to open it without a warrant. This was all over in the news last year.

I have been using pinger for last two years and advised other people on using it many times on this forum. Once you logged out of pinger, textplus or whatever app you are completely disconnected from the communication you did using that app. You don't even have to delete them.
 
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