since the government is (probable) impeding/infringing on our income .......

[D`anna]

can't we create a class action suit or something to that effect against the government?

I realize their tactic is to rid of prostitution. It is true prostitution will never go away. Scares me what is next. And of course the government could care less.

I don't know the proper words but I hope I am getting my point across.

I still don't understand how the government can make aspects of the law legal but not allow us to make a living?

I heard this before but can't remember where......it's like having a hammer but buying nails is against the law.

Why are our clients even in the same category as pimps and traffickers?

 

[jamestheother]

A class proceeding for the government enacting laws is not a cause of action. The government can and will enact laws within its powers.

I'm not so sure that this law is meant to end paid consensual sex. If that was the intention the Bill would have criminalized the sale and purchase of certain defined sexual acts or services.

As I think more about it, and as I read the bill, and as I set out in another related thread, I am of the view that it would have been politically unpalatable for the current government to do nothing (remember the frigid and sexless Joy Smith and others in the Conservative caucus) while at the same time enacting a law that will never be enforced because simple techniques can remove the consideration from the "sexual service" (whatever that is) . The important part is the advertising prohibition. I expect vigorous enforcement of this part of the proposed law.

The reason is that the government wants the communication for the offer of sexual services hidden and not in the back of the daily newspapers so that they can claim that the problem has been solved. I expect NOW to be the first publication to be charged which has the effect of demonstrating to the base that the law is going after the nasty purveyors of unnatural sex. The fact that NOW is left wing and has always criticized the Harper Conservatives is just a bonus. I know that prosecution lies with the provincial Crown.

The fact is that a vast majority of the men engaged in this activity are smart and successful. We can pay. And we pay a lot. I hope the last thing the government wants is to criminalize their bread and butter (law abiding, tax revenue generating, job machines). We can go to the States if Canada is going to be socially repressive. There are a lot of guys here that are very close to the Conservative government and are pissed.

D' anna I feel your pain and there will be some initial arrests and a transition but let's see how things go.

 

[MPAsquared]

Interesting take about NOW. Do u think a media outlet will be the 1st to challenge the laws/1st to be charged? I'd be curious how those companies are going to handle it.

 

[Viggo Rasmussen]

We can go to the States if Canada is going to be socially repressive.

There's no way I'd hobby in the States, there's a greater chance of being nabbed plus it's more expensive.

 

[ooh-ya-more]

can't we create a class action suit or something to that effect against the government?

I realize their tactic is to rid of prostitution. It is true prostitution will never go away. Scares me what is next. And of course the government could care less.

I don't know the proper words but I hope I am getting my point across.

I still don't understand how the government can make aspects of the law legal but not allow us to make a living?

I heard this before but can't remember where......it's like having a hammer but buying nails is against the law.

Why are our clients even in the same category as pimps and traffickers?

When the bill becomes law show up at the governments door and tell them you where a prostitute and now you want the financial help they promised so you can have an upstanding job with similar pay. And they should provide enough money so you don't have to go in debt while being retrained.

 

[jamestheother]

The media outlets will challenge the law but those challenges will take years. (After the next election)

I am no expert but I recall that NOW was charged under the current prostitution laws and was found not guilty. It is too lengthy to discuss but the principles of Bedford will be engaged in any such charge against any media outlet.

They will do just fine and no doubt are gearing up for the defence based on the current version of the Bill.

The government is attempting to put a "chill" in this activity. For most people who are not close to it they just do not want to see those "depraved, disgusting ads at the back of the Sun, etc.". Most people (and by people I mean women, mainly soccer moms, denizens of the suburbs, and other Conservative core voters) believe that a vast majority of this activity is "survival sex" and the "victim" is exploited and needs to be protected from "the johns". That was the point of the 3 day media event this past week.

We know that this is not the case and that there are a myriad of laws that protect SPs from illegal acts. Bedford was determined in part to permit SPs to hire people to protect them among other things.

I have remarked in my real life that no one wants honest politicians. Ordinary people want to be lied to. It makes them feel better. Most of all the partisans want to be lied to. They are the ones who pick up the pitchforks ready to do battle. Without the lies they are not motivated.

Think about it. Paragraph 165 of Bedford specifically affirms the right of Parliament to impose limits on prostitution. Why did the government not prohibit the sale and purchase of certain defined sexual services. That is the question that you want answered. Parliament has the right to criminalize prostitution.

I think the answer is that the government can say to its base that it is "doing something" while at the same time not alienating its base of fiscally conservative/socially progressive urban voters. I have concluded (and you can read my other posts) that simple techniques make conviction difficult if not impossible under the new law. It is just part of the Conservative's game (no different from Kathleen Wynne's games - or any successful politician's games).

And no I do not work for the PMO.

 

[jamestheother]

There's no way I'd hobby in the States, there's a greater chance of being nabbed plus it's more expensive.

I'm not saying that you could hobby in the States, the opposite is true. I am saying that if it is criminalized in both countries I could do a lot better financially in the States. I choose to live in Canada because it is generally more socially progressive.

 

[elise]

A class proceeding for the government enacting laws is not a cause of action. The government can and will enact laws within its powers.

I`m not so sure that this law is meant to end paid consensual sex. If that was the intention the Bill would have criminalized the sale and purchase of certain defined sexual acts or services.

As I think more about it, and as I read the bill, and as I set out in another related thread, I am of the view that it would have been politically unpalatable for the current government to do nothing (remember the frigid and sexless Joy Smith and others in the Conservative caucus) while at the same time enacting a law that will never be enforced because simple techniques can remove the consideration from the "sexual service" (whatever that is) . The important part is the advertising prohibition. I expect vigorous enforcement of this part of the proposed law.

The reason is that the government wants the communication for the offer of sexual services hidden and not in the back of the daily newspapers so that they can claim that the problem has been solved. I expect NOW to be the first publication to be charged which has the effect of demonstrating to the base that the law is going after the nasty purveyors of unnatural sex. The fact that NOW is left wing and has always criticized the Harper Conservatives is just a bonus. I know that prosecution lies with the provincial Crown.

The fact is that a vast majority of the men engaged in this activity are smart and successful. We can pay. And we pay a lot. I hope the last thing the government wants is to criminalize their bread and butter (law abiding, tax revenue generating, job machines). We can go to the States if Canada is going to be socially repressive. There are a lot of guys here that are very close to the Conservative government and are pissed.

D` anna I feel your pain and there will be some initial arrests and a transition but let`s see how things go.

The media outlets will challenge the law but those challenges will take years. (After the next election)

I am no expert but I recall that NOW was charged under the current prostitution laws and was found not guilty. It is too lengthy to discuss but the principles of Bedford will be engaged in any such charge against any media outlet.

They will do just fine and no doubt are gearing up for the defence based on the current version of the Bill.

The government is attempting to put a "chill" in this activity. For most people who are not close to it they just do not want to see those "depraved, disgusting ads at the back of the Sun, etc.". Most people (and by people I mean women, mainly soccer moms, denizens of the suburbs, and other Conservative core voters) believe that a vast majority of this activity is "survival sex" and the "victim" is exploited and needs to be protected from "the johns". That was the point of the 3 day media event this past week.

We know that this is not the case and that there are a myriad of laws that protect SPs from illegal acts. Bedford was determined in part to permit SPs to hire people to protect them among other things.

I have remarked in my real life that no one wants honest politicians. Ordinary people want to be lied to. It makes them feel better. Most of all the partisans want to be lied to. They are the ones who pick up the pitchforks ready to do battle. Without the lies they are not motivated.

Think about it. Paragraph 165 of Bedford specifically affirms the right of Parliament to impose limits on prostitution. Why did the government not prohibit the sale and purchase of certain defined sexual services. That is the question that you want answered. Parliament has the right to criminalize prostitution.

I think the answer is that the government can say to its base that it is "doing something" while at the same time not alienating its base of fiscally conservative/socially progressive urban voters. I have concluded (and you can read my other posts) that simple techniques make conviction difficult if not impossible under the new law. It is just part of the Conservative`s game (no different from Kathleen Wynne`s games - or any successful politician`s games).

And no I do not work for the PMO.

Excellent posts (and in the other thread https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?488727-Ideas-for-ways-to-pay-online/page2 ).

Very interesting line of thinking and reasoning.
It will not end everything but it will still notch up the risk factor substantially especially for those that can`t afford to be outted for marital or criminal record reasons. Sadly, I fall into both of those categories.

I will not forgive them either even though the alternatives are equally distasteful. Unfortunately at this point of the game it is all wait and see. Get it while you can is the philosophy I`m using right now.

 

[Marla]

agreed. i wonder about NOW ... it's affiliated somehow with Backpages cause ads often appear in both when only posted on BP. I think BP is a US site, therefore out of jurisdiction. How did the Craigslist escort section get removed in 2010? It must have been based on some legislation? no?

I spoke at length with SunMedia where I place all my print ads. They are proceeding as usual and tell me they don't foresee a problem with me placing ads in the future, despite C36.

From what I understand, BP has moved to Great Britain, If they can close down the Red Book in the states then they can close down the Red Zone also. The more companies that move offshore, the safer we will be. I don't know where Craigslist is from.

 

[MPAsquared]

From what I understand, BP has moved to Great Britain, If they can close down the Red Book in the states then they can close down the Red Zone also. The more companies that move offshore, the safer we will be. I don't know where Craigslist is from.

I believe CL is run out of San Francisco.

 

[bobcat40]

I believe CL is run out of San Francisco.

CL closed their escort section due to pressure from the government/LE . It was probably due to a high number of police investigations of pimped sex workers making it not worth the trouble for CL.

 

[lovelatinas]

We have the power to vote the Conservatives out of office next federal election. If everyone on this board and everyone in the sex industry band together to make a movement to vote them out of Ottawa in 2015.

 

[squeezer]

We have the power to vote the Conservatives out of office next federal election. If everyone on this board and everyone in the sex industry band together to make a movement to vote them out of Ottawa in 2015.

My donations and support have stopped the day after I heard Peter Mackay's speech.

I do not give my hard earned money to people who call me names!