Shower Question

[raydeon]

All the showers I have seen in houses/appartments have the following in common:

Walls, ceiling and floor are usually covered using ceramic tiles. Those tiles are joined by grouting, but the joints between each wall and floor & walls, or walls & ceiling are filled with a silicone base filler. I find this always being the place where molding starts, and is always very difficult or sometimes impossible to remove or clean.

My question is why not use the same grouting in those areas as the one used between the tiles?

I remember about 30 years ago, I had a water leak behind the shower wall and ended up tearing the all thing appart and renovating the entire bathroom. I used grouting everywhere, between tiles and walls, floor & ceiling. I continued living there for abt 5 years, and I do not recall having had any molding problems.

Is there any reasons why silicone is now commonly used?

 

[Neverenuff$]

grouting tends to crack in corners (and the other 90 deg areas) , perhaps there is more expansion and contraction in those areas .. silicone will seal and remain flexible.. its also a good idea to seal the grout after application (commonly a silicon based fluid is painted on)

Most good quality Tub/bathroom Silicons will not go mouldy

Shower leaks suck !!

 

[tboy]

Well, I don't know what showers you've been using but the only ones I've seen, and installed, are grouted everywhere, even the corners.

When tiles meet a countertop or other surface made of a different material silicone caulking should be used due to the different expansion, contraction and movement of the different surface (as stated). Tiled walls SHOULD NOT MOVE. If they do, the tiles or grout will crack. Once fired, ceramic or porcelain tiles will not expand. That's why they are starting to use porcelain in engine blocks etc. Well, let me correct myself, if you re-fire the tile, at about 2000 deg. then some expansion will be realized.

And yes, silicone and other latex caulking have mold inhibitors imbedded in the material so the mold is not a result of the caulking, but due to some other problem. Most likely a water leak behind the wall that is sealed.

Please note that a lot of cheap caulking shrinks with age and that is where the leakage comes from.....100% silicone won't shrink.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

You ARE Mike Holmes, aren't you tboy?

 

[papasmerf]

Well, I don't know what showers you've been using but the only ones I've seen, and installed, are grouted everywhere, even the corners.

When tiles meet a countertop or other surface made of a different material silicone caulking should be used due to the different expansion, contraction and movement of the different surface (as stated). Tiled walls SHOULD NOT MOVE. If they do, the tiles or grout will crack. Once fired, ceramic or porcelain tiles will not expand. That's why they are starting to use porcelain in engine blocks etc. Well, let me correct myself, if you re-fire the tile, at about 2000 deg. then some expansion will be realized.

And yes, silicone and other latex caulking have mold inhibitors imbedded in the material so the mold is not a result of the caulking, but due to some other problem. Most likely a water leak behind the wall that is sealed.

Please note that a lot of cheap caulking shrinks with age and that is where the leakage comes from.....100% silicone won't shrink.

you need to use RTV silicone to get the best protection. The crap most contractors use is no better then painters calk.

 

[raydeon]

Re: Shower

Well, I don't know what showers you've been using but the only ones I've seen, and installed, are grouted everywhere, even the corners.
....................

Thanks tboy. The showers I have been refering to were in 4 different houses, 2 condo town houses, and 3 appartments, all in Ontario and in the last 30 years. All from different builders, so it would appear that using silicone is more the norm than the exception. However I like your statement that the one you install are grouted everywhere, and I intend to do that.

I do not have a leakage problem, I just want to clean the unsightly molded joints and redo them in a more durable way. Furthermore, I should not have a moulding problem because the shower in question is in a well ventilated bathroom with a window which opens, and a fan which I use everytime I use the shower.

You ARE Mike Holmes, aren't you tboy?

Your thread hijacking is very distasful, and confirm my opinion that your are a total idiot.

 

[papasmerf]

What can you do if you already HAVE a mould problem? How can you get rid of it?

Mix TIDE and Clorox

About 2 ounces of tide, one cup of clorox and a quart of hot water.

Clean the area with that and you should eliminate it. If you have mold on the celing or wall clean it the best you can then use SILVER spary pint to prime the entire area. Let paint dry and us a quality flat primer on it before you paint.

 

[james t kirk]

Good contractors always use silicone in the corners because grout cracks in corners, especially along the floor lines.

Use simple javex bleach to instantly rid yourelf of mold and mildew.

cheers

 

[tboy]

Well, from the sounds of the units he's seen this problem in they are all cookie cutter homes. Especially apartment buildings, (for the most part) they want the cheapest means possible of finishing the place. Same goes for condos, I was working in one last summer (on the harbourfront) and they paid something like $375,000.00 for a 2 bedroom, the hallway wall was 3/4" out of plumb over 6'...Now I know framers don't know plumb and square, but that is frickin ridiculous.....

yes, I only use silicone caulking when I finish a tiling job. The only time I use painter's caulk is to fill the nail holes and gaps when doing baseboard and other mouldings. I lovingly call it: Carpenter in a tube

Oh, it helps if your bathroom is well ventilated but if you get water behind the tiles or elsewhere that doesn't have a constant flow of DRY air over it, you will get mold or rot. Rot actually isn't as bad as mold (IMHO) as you can simply replace the rotten wood, but mold can not only make you ill, it can spread rapidly and if it gets severe enough, you may have to scrap the whole interior....

 

[blitz]

Grout and caulk are different yet similar.

If you have seen bathroon shower tile and caulk or kitchen tile and caulk then you have seen the usual, boring and basic skill.

If you have seen grout then ideally you have seen an interesting tile job. Was it granite, stone, ceramic? There are many kewl wall coverings but at the end of the day the grout AND the tiles need to be treated so that they don't absorb water.

 

[raydeon]

Well, from the sounds ..........
Oh, it helps if your bathroom is well ventilated but if you get water behind the tiles or elsewhere that doesn't have a constant flow of DRY air over it, you will get mold or rot. Rot actually isn't as bad as mold (IMHO) as you can simply replace the rotten wood, but mold can not only make you ill, it can spread rapidly and if it gets severe enough, you may have to scrap the whole interior....

Hi again tboy. 1/ I had that problem in one of the town house I owned. This was a relatively expensive place, semi custom built. (Over 400 k in the late 80's) Silicone was used, so it is not always the less expensive mass builders that do that.

2/ I don't have a problem with water getting behind the tiles or anywhere. The entire enclosure is clean, no trace of mold or rot. The only place where I have the mold problem is around the edge of the floor/walls junction. It is very bad, wide because it has been patched up with silicone over time to cover places where the joint had peeled of. . I tried to clean it several time, but cannot really succeed. I want to scrape that part. What is the best way to go about it?

 

[Meister]

I sometimes play with my caulk when I have a shower.

 

[goodtime]

Mike Holmes even recommends silicone!
There are even some new mildew resistant silicones now and Bon Ami or a similar foaming cleaner will get rid of your mildew and mould and it only takes a little scrubbing with a toothbrush.
Make sure you get a new one or use the SO's!!

Sounds like still requires clean-up? I see touch of mildrew forming even with the so called mildew resistant silicones, after repeat moisture build-up. If I've the money, I'm leaning toward the 1 piece moulded panels that some hotels use.

 

[tboy]

Sounds like still requires clean-up? I see touch of mildrew forming even with the so called mildew resistant silicones, after repeat moisture build-up. If I've the money, I'm leaning toward the 1 piece moulded panels that some hotels use.

The only problem with those panels is that you HAVE to remove and or kill the mold/mildew before the panels go up. Otherwise it will continue to spread and you won't be able to get at it......

 

[goodtime]

The only problem with those panels is that you HAVE to remove and or kill the mold/mildew before the panels go up. Otherwise it will continue to spread and you won't be able to get at it......

So true, many contractors take the easy way out. Mask the problems by covering it up.

I picture houses that were grow-ops masked by fresh coat of paint or drywall. Selective GTA neighborhoods taking a beat from these 'bargain' homes.

Just like the flooded cars from NOL, eventually dumped onto our market, but I'm getting off topic.

 

[papasmerf]

So true, many contractors take the easy way out. Mask the problems by covering it up.

I picture houses that were grow-ops masked by fresh coat of paint or drywall. Selective GTA neighborhoods taking a beat from these 'bargain' homes.

Just like the flooded cars from NOL, eventually dumped onto our market, but I'm getting off topic.

more so depends on the home owner then the contractor. People tend to take low bids and low bid is the least ammount of material and labor. As a home owner you need to ask questions. Ask if the mildew will be killed or covered up. Instead of blaming the contractor balme yourself.

 

[goodtime]

I insists on doing it right, my health is more important.

True, both are to blame. Homeowner needs to be better educated to ask questions.