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SHAKEDOWN: Budget Whining

The Shake

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The noise from people bitching and moaning about yesterday's budget is not surprising, but still annoying.

Are you pissed off about the budget?

Looking for someone to blame?


Well, LOOK IN THE FUCKING MIRROR!!!!

The next time you want to rant about the "Fiberals", or Slick Ernie for that matter, take a deep breath and think about the political climate that our lazy-ass approach to politics and government has created.

We are the ones that can't seem to grasp the relationship between taxes and services.

Every winter, there's non-stop complaining about over-crowded emergency rooms. Every fall, there's incessant bitching about the state of our schools. Every spring, people moan about the potholes in our roads. Blah blah blah. We all want more (!), MORE (!), MORE (!) from the government, but they better not raise our fucking taxes!

Why?

Because we've bought the line that its always somebody's else's fault. Its the welfare moms, the nurses, the teachers, the municipalities, the civil servants - there's lots of fat to cut yada yada yada - just don't you dare touch anything that impacts me.

Is there waste in the system? Damn straight. Are there people who abuse our tax dollars? You better fucking believe it. Would simply addressing those problems solve everything? Assuming that you even could eliminate waste and abuse (you can't), that still wouldn't address the fundamental problem that we face - the services that we want cost money.

DUH!


Doctors cost money. Text books cost money. Cops cost money. Road repair costs money. Government services cost money.

In order to pay for those services, the government raises money through direct revenue (user fees) and pooled revenue (income taxes).

We've reached a point in time where its political suicide for a politician to campaign on a platform that includes tax increases, but we similarly cringe at the idea of higher user fees. We shout "NO" to the idea of [spooky voice]"American-style"[/spooky voice] health care and flip-out that little Timmy's Boy Scout troop can't afford to rent the school gym anymore for their Monday night meetings. But we pay our taxes and they are too damn high, surely we should get something back, right? So, we don't want to pay any more, but we also won't elect parties that would radically reduce the size and scope of the government!

With all that in mind, is it possible to wind up with anyone but liars like Dalton & Ernie?

Those on the right would point to someone like Mike Harris and say "look, he kept his promises" and, to an degree, they'd be right. The problem is, however, that the Harris approach only works so long as you have scapegoats to blame and an expanding economy. Its easy to cut taxes and still spend like mad on health care when times are good (and when you can do short-term accounting tricks like selling the 407) but, as Ernie found out, the math quickly doesn't add up once a few surprises (SARS, Iraq, etc.) stall the economy. More notably, once you cut out the obvious fat, you hit bone pretty quickly, and the soccer moms who don't want to pay an extra dime in taxes are spazzing about the wait time to get their knees MRI'd.

As a society, we need to grow the fuck up, have reasonable expectations in the role of government, and actively involve ourselves in the process.

Casting your vote to the slickest liar every four years, and then bitching about the outcome is the problem, not Dalton McGuinty and his Merry Men.
 

onthebottom

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Interesting perspective, we ugly Americans don't really follow your internal politics (especially to the level you follow ours). Democracy is defiantly a self-inflicted wound.

Have you ever meet a sponsor of a social program that thought the current level of funding was sufficient? There is a common business theory of benchmarking - comparing yourself to others to see if you are efficient at a task. Education would be a good example, what do you spend per student (k-12), what does the US spend, are you getting better or worse results. But that's too logical for any government process, especially one with Unions involved.

OTB
 

guelph

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May 25, 2002
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Winston said:
Hey Shake,
Well said. If you want services, you have to pay the taxes. You want "free" health care, you have to pay the taxes.

I think people are upset at the Liberals because they sold us a bill of goods. No tax increases etc etc etc.

Say what you will about Harris, he said what he was going to do, and did what he said he would.

I don't remember him telling us that he would make deals behind the back of parliament and even his cabinet - like exempting professional sports teams from a part to the EHT.


Harris was a one trick pony cut taxes no matter what the situation especially if conditions did not warrant a tax cut
 
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Shake, guess you haven't heard about the scandals in Ottawa, huh?

Point is, people are tired of the deception, and tired of corruption.

$900 a year on $50k is nuts, btw, and I'll bet you it won't do a thing to wait times.

BTW, where's all that federal money for health care?
 

The Shake

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Mao Tse Tongue said:
Shake, guess you haven't heard about the scandals in Ottawa, huh?
Funny, I believe I spherically said that there was waste and abuse in government. Hmmmm, let's see:

Originally ranted by The Shake
Is there waste in the system? Damn straight. Are there people who abuse our tax dollars? You better fucking believe it. Would simply addressing those problems solve everything? Assuming that you even could eliminate waste and abuse (you can't), that still wouldn't address the fundamental problem that we face - the services that we want cost money.
Yup, I did!

Point is, people are tired of the deception, and tired of corruption.
Point is, our lazy and stupid approach to politics is the reason for the deception and the corruption.

$900 a year on $50k is nuts, btw, and I'll bet you it won't do a thing to wait times.
I agree!

BTW, where's all that federal money for health care?
How the fuck should I know?

If you took my rant as a defence of the Liberal Party, then you pretty much missed the point.
 

calloway

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Feb 25, 2003
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The issue for me is not whether taxes have to be increased to pay for the services we receive, or to clean up the supposed mess left by the PC's. The issue is simple... McGuinty has lied to the people of Ontario. He promised no increase in taxes. He promised a balanced budget. He signed a contract agreeing to both promises and made sure the media was there during the election to help him get elected. McGuinty knew the books were in a mess and yet still made these specific promises. Now he can't keep them. He certainly brings a whole new fresh approach to politics doesn't he?
 

wrong hole

huh...
May 4, 2003
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Sorry Shakey, I didn't read your entire posting....it's too long, I have the attention span of a chimp that lost his banana in the rain forest 6 years ago

However, I have no problem paying more taxes for improved social services....infact I wouldn't mind paying even more taxes if it means a better living standard for all....but I just wish there would be more accountability by our elected officials....that they would use the money wisely or in a less self serving way...I mean Tiny Tim needs new crutches by now and some of the people on this board are illiterate....with accountability this can all change...


Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya
O Lord Kumbaya
 

The Shake

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wrong hole said:
Sorry Shakey, I didn't read your entire posting....it's too long, I have the attention span of a chimp that lost his banana in the rain forest 6 years ago
I forgive you, if only because I love this comment:

I mean Tiny Tim needs new crutches by now and some of the people on this board are illiterate....with accountability this can all change...
:)
 

Goober Mcfly

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Oct 26, 2001
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That's it. I'm going to run for Parliament. I'm creating a new party.

Every Canadian will get:

1. A 100% tax-cut
2. A blowjob by a supermodel every morning OR DATY from Orlando Bloom every morning
3. Steak. Or veggies, whatever you want, at every meal.
4. Cars that run on water
5. Preventative medicine, including cures for Cancer, Heart Disease and AIDS
6. I'll repeal all speed limits and outlaw dying
7. I'll make Canada the first in the list of nations, bigger than the US, bigger than Russia.
8. Everyone will be happy at all times. No wants will go unanswered.
9. I'll reduce the unemployment ranks to zero, the welfare ranks to zero, I'll heal all disabled people and give everyone their dream jobs.
10. I'll make it sunny and 24 degrees Celsius every day.

Vote for me!
 

wrong hole

huh...
May 4, 2003
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I'll vote for you

Goober Mcfly said:
2. A blowjob by a supermodel every morning OR DATY from Orlando Bloom every morning

....after all orlando bloom is so dreamy...
 

wrong hole

huh...
May 4, 2003
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This thread is (edited by moderator)
 

onthebottom

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Goober Mcfly said:
That's it. I'm going to run for Parliament. I'm creating a new party.

Every Canadian will get:

1. A 100% tax-cut
2. A blowjob by a supermodel every morning OR DATY from Orlando Bloom every morning
3. Steak. Or veggies, whatever you want, at every meal.
4. Cars that run on water
5. Preventative medicine, including cures for Cancer, Heart Disease and AIDS
6. I'll repeal all speed limits and outlaw dying
7. I'll make Canada the first in the list of nations, bigger than the US, bigger than Russia.
8. Everyone will be happy at all times. No wants will go unanswered.
9. I'll reduce the unemployment ranks to zero, the welfare ranks to zero, I'll heal all disabled people and give everyone their dream jobs.
10. I'll make it sunny and 24 degrees Celsius every day.

Vote for me!


Wouldn't that have to include DATY from a supermodel or blowjob from Orlando Bloom for the non-hetro vote?

OTB
 

Cardinal Fang

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onthebottom said:
Wouldn't that have to include DATY from a supermodel or blowjob from Orlando Bloom for the non-hetro vote?

OTB
Not that it matters but The Doctor wanted to ask if its possible to add getting a blow job from Janet Reno and DATY from Bob Dole for those that "haven't made up their minds yet."
 

Ranger68

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Mar 17, 2003
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The problem with your whole rant, Shake, is that this supposes that they couldn't give us an acceptable level of service at the current tax levels.

I think this is demonstrably false. People are fed up with paying more taxes when there's such incredible waste, mismanagement, and outright corruption in the civil service.

I choose to not look in the mirror and ask for accountability from our politicians. Something that has been lacking for quite some time.
 

The Shake

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Ranger68 said:
I think this is demonstrably false. People are fed up with paying more taxes when there's such incredible waste, mismanagement, and outright corruption in the civil service.
Then demonstrate it false.

There is waste, mismanagement, and outright corruption in our governments. Just like there is in any government - or large corporation for that matter. Its unacceptable and the government should always be vigilant about stamping it out.

The vast majority of our tax dollars are not stolen or mismanaged - they are simply spent. Spent on salaries. Spent on buildings. Spent on goods. Spent on services.

Whether those dollars are wasted or not is more debatable.
 
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