Service Charges

[Ginglay]

Got an NSF service charge...

Yes, I know, my fault for not watching the account and letting it get too low, but will someone tell me the point of the fine?

Its called a service charge, but they did not provide any service.

I mean if they had let the funds through then they would have done me a service, and in that case I would be quite happy to have handed over the $35 that they charged.

If they had called me to tell me, even that would have been worth $35 to me as it would have given me a warning of some kind that to would have been a service.

They couldn't even tell me who the funds requestor was or any other information about the source...

 

[n_v]

You are getting charged for the service of having someone process the cheque for no reason.

Oh, and its not the bank's job to keep track on the amount of funds available .. that's yours .

 

[calloway]

Provided you have the proper credit rating necessary... you can eliminate this problem by having your bank set-up overdraft protection with your chequing/savings account.

 

[n_v]

True, but that is only to a certain level. Inevitabley one falls into the trap of using that overdraft too often and then one is back to where they started.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

All Banks are full of it...

IMO.

This is exactly how they make billions of $$$ a year profit. I know so many people who have had huge service charges on their accounts and even went with out food because the bank sucked up all their funds with stupid service charges. Hey... when I was a kid I use to have a bank account that I made money on. I mean every month they put interest payments into my account because they are using my money to make money. That's how it should be. Not like how they do it today. One time they bounced my rent cheque because before processing my rent cheque they took out their 20some dollars worth of service charges for that month first. Then my account was like $3. short to cover my $450. rent cheque so they bounced it. I had to pay the bank and my landlord both $21. each for the mess up. F**k banks. I have not had a bank account for about 10 years... and don't plan on having one any time soon.

 

[booboobear]

Re: All Banks are full of it...

IMO.

This is exactly how they make billions of $$$ a year profit. I know so many people who have had huge service charges on their accounts and even went with out food because the bank sucked up all their funds with stupid service charges. Hey... when I was a kid I use to have a bank account that I made money on. I mean every month they put interest payments into my account because they are using my money to make money.

This is one of my pet peeves I cancelled my membership at Premier fitness and because I thought that they would try to continue to take monthly fees i cancelled my bank acct.
Only trouble was I did not get my acct closed in time so i had no funds and the bank charged me an nsf. They were nt even processing a cheque just a pre authorized payment which should not have gone through . So I say find $ 40 k KEEP IT.

 

[Ginglay]

TheNiteHwk, not sure how you achieved it, i mean not having a checking account, but that would be ideal. Even better would be a means of receiving 1 single consolidated bill for everything for the entire month, instead of having a thousands little ones all over the place. And, TheNiteHwk, that is precisely what killed me, a $9 amount over when this account that I refer to has a $15k+ per month of in/out cash flows.

 

[drlove]

Have overdraft protection added to your account and you'll be fine.

 

[Sabryna Taylor]

I had a similar experience to NiteHawk - like 4.00 short a day before my direct deposit pay - bank didn't notify.....or even hold the check for one day. I had been banking with them for years and my pay date had been the same for years....GRRRR.

Set up overdraft after that ...... pissed me off though.....

Sabryna

 

[tboy]

This has happened to me on SO many occasions: I deposit a cheque to cover whatever payments will be going through said account over the next week. All payments bounce because they are "holding" the cheque for 10 days, 28 BUSINESS days for US cheques (from US companies).

Now, forgive me if I am wrong, but the second I deposit a cheque, in this day and age of computers, it can immediately be removed from the person's name on the cheque and deposited into mine. This is another way a bank makes millions: by "holding" my money until they see fit to release it.

CIBC is on a major customer revolt due to that recent CBC report that they are faxing confidential information to a scrap yard owner in North Carolina. I am about this >< close to leaving as well.

Please note: overdraft protection can be expensive. RBC charges $5.00 a month to "maintain" this program even if you do not have an overdraft. Maintain my ass, all it is is data in a computer.

 

[einar]

If you smile enough, are sweet to the tellers, and maybe ask a manager nicely after you have been a customer for awhile, your bank branch may soften its hold policy on your cheques. I don't earn big money, and don't do lots of banking -- Joe Average at best -- but there are now no holds on my accounts up to some large amount, $10,000 or $15,000CDN. That's nice of CIBC, and helpful to me now and again. On the other hand, I have never bounced a cheque, so maybe I get better service.

There is a subjectivity factor in this hold business that the banks don't readily acknowledge. I do think it helps to stand in line regularly at a branch, so real employees get to know you a little.

Of course, that has its own aggravations and limited hours.

As for the instant electronic banking concept which should make holds outmoded, Tboy is correct in the abstract: imo US banking is neanderthal, and Canadian is colonial, compared to other parts of the world.

P.S. It would be nice to hear the other side: from TERB members who either work in banks, or have started out life as a teller.

 

[booboobear]

I had a similar experience to NiteHawk - like 4.00 short a day before my direct deposit pay - bank didn't notify.....or even hold the check for one day. I had been banking with them for years and my pay date had been the same for years....GRRRR.

Set up overdraft after that ...... pissed me off though.....

Sabryna

You should have been pissed off . Nowadays you pay more for less service.
In the old days they would have callled you and you would bring in the $ 4 , now you pay $ 35 yet banking fees are higher.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

P.S. It would be nice to hear the other side: from TERB members who either work in banks, or have started out life as a teller.

Yah.. I would like to hear their viewpoint as well. If they DARE!

To me all banks are a pure rip off plain and simple. You got to be one heartless SOB to enforce some of the rule they have. And especially when you are enforcing it on someone with very low income. I could never work at a bank.

To me rules are made to be broken. I always bend the rules at my work when I figure it's not fair. Large corporation heartless rules all in the name of money make me sick. If I figure something is unfair... and I can get away with it... I give them a break. What's my employer going to do? Fire me? Big deal. I'll make one phone call and have another job within 15 minutes.

 

[superquad1968]

OK I'll bite. Though I won't defend completely.

In terms of cheques going through when you have little in there. Both RBC and TD/CT (unsure of the others) have courtesy overdraft (which is different from the OD you have put on your accpint) based on your banking habits and how profitable you are to them. If you have no NSFs and are generally pretty good they will honour cheques you have written. Or if you do a lot of business (mortgage, investments) they will do it as well.

If all you have is a single account then the bank's desire to bend the rules for TheNiteHwk is slim. That really is no different from business in general. Customers who bring in business will get benefits that customers who do not don't. Better price, better customer service, etc.

RBC and BMO set up a separate company that would process all the cheque in a single location. Cost savings. So the chance that your branch has your cheques is slim and none.

I feel for people who are paying $20+ a month in fees. Simpy because they don't have to. Talk to your bank about service packages where you pay a certain amount per month and get certain transactions included. For example TDCT has an unlimited self-serve transactions for $12.95 per month. https://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/infinity.jsp

As for people who believe that banks make their money from these charges the only thing I can say is that it is not true. Banks make their money from mortgages, loans, and investments. People complain that they get a pittance on savings in their account. But at the same time you can get a mortgage for 5%. People forget the relationship that is there. If you wanted 5% interest on your savings account then the banks would have to charge 9% for mortqages.

People who don't have accounts might miss one advantage to having an account. This is situation dependant. When they need a loan at some point but have no account then their chances of getting that loan are reduced.

I hope I have helped at least a little bit. No banks are not perfect. No large corporation is. I'll leave you with this. Virtually every person with a Canadian mutual fund in their retirement savings has ownership of at least one of the major banks.

SQ

 

[booboobear]

As for people who believe that banks make their money from these charges the only thing I can say is that it is not true. Banks make their money from mortgages, loans, and investments. .


I hope I have helped at least a little bit. No banks are not perfect. No large corporation is. I'll leave you with this. Virtually every person with a Canadian mutual fund in their retirement savings has ownership of at least one of the major banks.

SQ

I don't mind banks making money , you are right that if you hold stocks you want them to make money . I would not even mind a $ 10 nsf charge if necessary but if you have direct deposit they should have an automatic od to a certain amount.

The $ 35 nsf charge to be is simple gouging and that I do object to.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Thanks for the bite Superquad. I have heard all this before though. I know you said you are not defending them so I’m not attacking you. I just think most of this is B.S. I don’t care if the bank makes most of their money on mortgages etc and very little or none off their account service charges. Fact is if it were not for thousands of clients with small deposits they would not have the money to lend for mortgages. (IMO) And I guess I just (because of my background) get my undies in a knot when the little guy is getting hit. Many different types of companies lose money in one division and make profit in another division. The bottom line for me is that banks are making not millions but farking billions of dollars profit every year and I don’t believe even for one millisecond that if they reduced service charges for the less fortunate that they would make very much less profit. All the executives could still have their Jags and Forrest Hill homes. Personally I won’t be able to sleep at night if I know my Jag was paid for on the back of a single mother on welfare who kids are going hungry because I charged her $35. for bouncing a cheque by mistake. Or even worse the cheque bounces because the bank policy is to take their service charges first then process peoples rent cheques. All banks can go fark themselves.

 

[icto]

The banking fee that bothered me most happened to me recently. I bought something that had a $20 mail-in rebate. The rebate cheque turned out to be in US dollars. The bank charged me a $5 fee for processing the (US) cheque. I wound up with less than if it was a cheque for $20 Canadian.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

The banking fee that bothered me most happened to me recently. I bought something that had a $20 mail-in rebate. The rebate cheque turned out to be in US dollars. The bank charged me a $5 fee for processing the (US) cheque. I wound up with less than if it was a cheque for $20 Canadian.

This is exactly what I'mm talking about. Seems like over the last few years they just make up service fees as they go along. Anything at all that sounds like they can get away with. If they could get away with it they would charge you a flush fee every time one of their staff goes to the shitter. You know since they are so full of it... maybe I better not give them any ideas.

End Rant for today.

 

[FunSeeker27]

OK, let me start off as well by saying that I am in NOOOOOO way defending the banks on this, I'm simply looking to shed some light here...

OK I'll bite. Though I won't defend completely.

In terms of cheques going through when you have little in there. Both RBC and TD/CT (unsure of the others) have courtesy overdraft (which is different from the OD you have put on your accpint) based on your banking habits and how profitable you are to them. If you have no NSFs and are generally pretty good they will honour cheques you have written. Or if you do a lot of business (mortgage, investments) they will do it as well.

Actually, the 'courtesy OD' at TD isn't based on your banking habits or profitability (I have no clue about what RBC does) - it's based on your credit scoring the same way as if you applied for an actual OD. Be careful because you don't always have this applied to your account, and unlike an actual OD, this amount WILL change from time to time. The process itself of whether to pay or return your cheques is automated for the average account, so none of the branch staff will have any idea as to whether you are about to have your cheque bounced or not. The system will look for another account in your name that has funds in it, and transfer over to cover on your behalf. No other funds, no cheque cleared. Your last hope is to make a deposit to your account before noon to cover the cheque, or else you're toast.

As for people who believe that banks make their money from these charges the only thing I can say is that it is not true. Banks make their money from mortgages, loans, and investments. People complain that they get a pittance on savings in their account. But at the same time you can get a mortgage for 5%. People forget the relationship that is there. If you wanted 5% interest on your savings account then the banks would have to charge 9% for mortqages.

I'd agree here as well - the NSF fees are definately not where the banks are making their money - this is a small small revenue stream.