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Road tolls to pay for subways

Are road tolls a good way to pay for Rob Ford's subway plan?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 46.3%
  • No

    Votes: 51 53.7%

  • Total voters
    95

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,011
7
0
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is.gd
One of Ford's advisors is now suggesting that the only way to pay for the subway plan Ford envisions is to come up with new revenue sources. Road tolls were one suggestion.

So would tolls on the Gardiner, DVP, and Allen, etc., be a good idea, if it meant that the subway proposal was affordable?

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/998862--road-toll-reality-check-stirs-up-toronto-council?bn=1

An exclusive report by the Star that new road tolls and congestion charges will be needed to deliver the $4 billion Sheppard subway has caused a stir among city councillors and business groups.

Claims that the private sector will step in and build the line on its own are not realistic, Gordon Chong, head of Toronto Transit Infrastructure Ltd., told the Star’s Royson James in an interview.

Chong is a former TTC commissioner who was hand-picked by Mayor Rob Ford to hammer out the details of his transportation plan. His comments fly in the face of promises by the mayor that taxpayers will not foot the bill for new subway lines.

“This could be the wake up call for Torontonians to realize how foolish from a business perspective the mayor’s Sheppard subway proposal really is,” said Councillor Joe Mihevc (Ward 21, St. Paul’s), a former vice-chair of the Toronto Transit Commission.

Ford has not provided details on where he would find $4 billion in private-sector funding for a 13-kilometre Sheppard subway extension that would take that line from Downsview east to Scarborough Town Centre.

In a campaign video from last September that outlines his transportation plan, Ford promises to take a “sensible approach to improve transportation and reduce congestion.”

“My plan does not include any new taxes, tolls, or congestion charges,” he says in the video.

Ford could not be reached for comment Saturday.

Deputy Mayor Doug Holyday (Ward 3, Etobicoke Centre) said the notion of using tolls would require careful consideration and further study.

“I certainly think we would approach tolls with caution and you would want to determine the result of that,” Holyday said.

Chong, known as a close adviser to the mayor, should be commended for putting a “politically unpalatable” idea on the table, said councillor Josh Colle (Ward 15, Eglinton-Lawrence).

“If we want to build subways, or invest in any transportation infrastructure, we have to look at ways to pay for that. I commend him for giving everyone a reality check. For some it may be more like a bucket of cold water in the face, but it was needed,” said Colle, who is trying to establish an anti-gridlock task force.

The city hopes to get some money from the Sheppard line from a $1.2 billion federal infrastructure program available for public projects with private investors.

The Toronto Board of Trade said that it welcomes a broader discussion on transit infrastructure financing. “It is very clear that if we are going to expand transit infrastructure, especially subways, it requires us to explore the broadest possible range of financing solutions,” Richard Joy, vice president of policy and government relations, said in an email.

A Toronto Star-Angus Reid poll conducted in April 2010 found that nearly seven in 10 GTA respondents reject the idea of $5 tolls on highways such as the DVP or Gardiner. However, the opposition is less fierce among residents within the city of Toronto, or when told the funds would be dedicated to improving public transit.
 

Brill

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2008
8,679
1,192
113
Toronto
I'm not surprised that Ford is really a tax and spend guy. This will nail more revenue from outsiders that the car licence fee couldn't reach.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
10,197
2,082
113
that would make ford the same as mcguinty, who campaigned on no tax increases then brought in the huge ohip surcharge on the income tax. DON'T "NICKEL AND DIME " US, ROB!
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,011
7
0
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is.gd
that would make ford the same as mcguinty, who campaigned on no tax increases then brought in the huge ohip surcharge on the income tax. DON'T "NICKEL AND DIME " US, ROB!
The problem is that Ford made campaign promises that are unaffordable. He was always going to have to break a promise somewhere, either backing off one of his proposals, or backing off his promise not to raise taxes. People didn't care during the election that his platform didn't add up, but now that he's actually mayor we will have to decide whether we want increased revenue sources to pay for Rob Ford's transit plan, or whether to go back to something more affordable like Transit City.
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
9,904
8,065
113
Let the people who ride the subway pay for it.I am tired of people whinning about public transit being to costly.You use it,you pay for it.
 

oral.com

Sapere Aude, Carpe Diem
Jul 21, 2004
920
535
93
Toronto

Questor

New member
Sep 15, 2001
4,549
1
0
The problem is that Ford made campaign promises that are unaffordable. He was always going to have to break a promise somewhere, either backing off one of his proposals, or backing off his promise not to raise taxes. People didn't care during the election that his platform didn't add up, but now that he's actually mayor we will have to decide whether we want increased revenue sources to pay for Rob Ford's transit plan, or whether to go back to something more affordable like Transit City.
True, he was lying during the campaign. Nothing new about that. But I think the ship has sailed on the Transit City option. He already renegotiated provincial grants that will be diverted to build the Eglinton underground LRT.
Let the people who ride the subway pay for it.I am tired of people whinning about public transit being to costly.You use it,you pay for it.
Well considering that the tolls would be targeting people who have escaped high taxes and land values in Toronto in exchange for ranch style living in the far reaches of the GTA and then commute long distances, polluting our air and causing all kinds of health problems, along with some of the worst traffic jams in North America, which they don't currently pay for, I think its about time Torontonians stopped subsizing this ridiculous lifestyle and make the user of these commmunity destroying highways pay.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,040
3,895
113
Let the people who ride the subway pay for it.I am tired of people whinning about public transit being to costly.You use it,you pay for it.
I feel the same way about people who use the roads for free.

THEY should pay for it.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,040
3,895
113
I voted no because Toronto already contributes the lion's share of tax revenue and GDP to Canada. We need to get some of our own money back.

Lisa Rochon wrote a great column in the Globe and Mail yesterday about exactly this topic. Her argument was that even if the feds contributed 1 percent of the GDP that TORONTO generated (one fucking percent) per year, that would equal 1.5 billion a year.

More than enough to finance a decent subway program in Toronto.

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...s-never-going-to-be-beautiful/article2037428/

In Toronto, the average amount spent on public transit annually (by governments and from fare revenue) is about $338 per capita. New York spends twice that. London, three times. Is it any wonder that 70 per cent of Torontonians choose to drive to work?
 

Mr. Piggy

Banned
Jul 4, 2007
3,033
1
0
Oshawa
I feel the same way about people who use the roads for free.

THEY should pay for it.
Everyone that drives a vehicle already pays for it. Fuel taxes, licencing, etc. so there shouldn't be road tolls.
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,649
1,286
113
I feel the same way about people who use the roads for free.

THEY should pay for it.
What's this "free"? Nothing the government does is free, including constructing and maintaining roads. The problem is that most people don't know how much each transportation system costs and how much we are already paying towards it in taxes.
 

Kilgore Trout

Active member
Oct 18, 2008
2,490
0
36
There's already a road toll in effect.

The road toll is paid at the gas pump. Everytime you buy 100.00 worth of gas there's a hidden road toll of $32.00 in there.
They should just add 20% or whatever the number is to this already existing gas pump road toll to avoid having to deal with a bunch of nosepickers in tollbooths all over the god damned place.
 

Adam_hadam

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2008
1,390
535
113
Traffic in Toronto can slow down even more with toll booths on the 401 or the parkway.
How about not paying pension contributions to the union for 1 year. How much $$$ would be saved? Anyone know?
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,011
7
0
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is.gd
Traffic in Toronto can slow down even more with toll booths on the 401 or the parkway
I bet traffic would speed up and congestion would clear up. I've never seen much congestion on the 407...

The tolls would convince more people to take the subway, which, voila, would exist because the tolls would pay for it. I think a reasonable proposal would be that the tolls are charged the same day the new subway line opens.

Toronto residents should be able to get a significantly discounted toll rate in recognition that they also pay property taxes. The same transponder and billing technology could be used as for the 407 making it relatively convenient for drivers.
 

harryass

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2010
3,230
898
113
no to road tolls. Its goine to create a decrease in the level of service or capacity on the roads. stop, go, stop, go, etc. Subways users have to pay.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,489
11
38
Let the people who ride the subway pay for it.I am tired of people whinning about public transit being to costly.You use it,you pay for it.
So pay for using the roads. Tell'ya what we'll make transit users pay exactly what road users pay every time either begins a journey. Heck we can even take the taxes off gas and roll that into income tax.

Why do drivers always whine as if free road use was some Law of Nature?
 

Mervyn

New member
Dec 23, 2005
3,549
0
0
In order for people to take transit it would have to be so frequent and plentiful there would never be more than a few people per vehicle.

If each vehicle only carried a few people , the system losses money as that is not very efficient.
 
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