Renovating a 100 Year Old House

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Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
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I recently purchased a home that is over 100 years old that requires a fair amount of renovations.

There are a lot of joys and challenges when tackling a project like this.

After an inspection with an inspector (who was thorough - a day and a binder of all findings), he discovered that there was no asbestos, the plumbing was old, but it was copper and no leaks (clogged sinks), the wiring was up to date'ish (replaced the fuse panel with a breaker box); and the house passed structurally (joists were solid but the house had settled in the middle (looks like a chimney was taken out years ago and it had settled around that area), it was very dirty having not been cleaned in several years and there was zero mold (I have mold allergies and nothing triggered).

After ripping out 30 year old carpet and then even older tiles and plywood, the original floor was 1.5 inch tongue and groove pine. Unfortunately it was uneven and the total drop from the highest point at the front door to where the chimney used to be was about 4 inches. I ended up building a sub-floor out of 2 x 4's by cutting the bottom of each 2 x 4 to match the dip in the floor and leaving the top of the 2 x 4 level (this was leveled off of the 2 x 4 next to it on 16 inch centers). I covered these up with 3/4 inch plywood. I also insulated the floor by adding rock wool insulation between the 2 x 4's.

The walls are lathe and plaster which is a pain in the ass to work with. I took out one non-load bearing wall to open up the kitchen but I did replace it with an LVL beam as I was concerned because it had a wall directly above it on the second floor and an old brick wall in the small basement directly underneath. The ceiling joist were parallel to the wall, but for $100 of LVL beams it was worth the peace of mind.

The walls were covered with hideous wall paper and instead of trying to peel it off I painted over it with Zinnser Bin 123 shellac paint. That sealed it and covered old stains/odors and allowed me to put a nice latex paint over it.

The furnace is about 15 years old and it does not have a humidifier or air conditioner. I am not too sure if I should add a humidifier as I do not want to add too much water in the air and create a mold issue. I have never owned an old house but they seem to have natural drafts. Coming from an air tight home in the burbs i hated how damp it was. These old homes have a somewhat natural air circulation.

The kitchen walls are the only walls that are not insulated. I am in the process of building two walls inside the existing kitchen (furring walls) and adding rock wool insulation. I will lose about 8 inches of space, but it is easier than tearing out the lath and plaster.

There is a basement that has the furnace and water heater. The rest of house is crawl space and dirt floor. As the snow melts water comes in from the sandy part of the basement and makes its way over to the sump pump.

Finally, the windows are old and will need to be replaced. Nothing is square and a simple fix is usually not that simple.

My three big concerns are:

Basement /crawl space - I would like to seal up the crawl space but I am worried it might upset the natural balance down there and invite other problems.

Furnace Humidifier - Whether I should get a humidifier for the furnace. There are zero mold issues in the house and i want to keep it that way.

Plumbing - I plan to move a bathroom (seems to be one vent in the entire house). I will keep an eye on youtube or may bite the bullet and hire a plumber.

I did find this guy has amazing old home renovation videos - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weTsUYj0FXI

I plan on getting a cat in the event that mice decide to move in (no signs of recent rodent activity but there was evidence from years ago).

Any tips and/or advice on owning a 100 year old home would be appreciated.
 

John Henry

Active member
Apr 10, 2011
1,298
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Well it looks like you know what you're doing . Now I'm a guy who knows nothing about nothing but I wouldn't get a humidifier . Those houses weren't built that tight . I got 2 new furnaces installed in 2 house a few years ago and with no humidifier . The HVAC guy said that I didn't need them . Why add humidity when it's not needed . No problems thus far . Both homes are over 60 years old . I like watching that YouTube guy you have mentioned but I also like watching House Addition Plus and House Improvements . Both are great channels with lots of info .
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,045
3,915
113
I'm in a place that's 100 years old in downtown west.

Would never live in the burbs. Done more renovations on this place (and 2 others) than I want to think about. But I'm very proud of what I've done and do pretty much everything myself.

You didn't mention if the house was structural brick or stick framed, or what the exterior cladding was. Usually houses as old as yours are structural brick. I.e. 2 wythes of brick that are bonded together to form a wall.

In no particular order.

1. I hate crawl spaces. Me, I would dig that out and pour a basement, underpinning the house as required. It's a massive and dangerous job, but worth it. I would not be worried about upsetting the balance whatsoever.

2. You are correct, old houses with some drafts are far healthier for you than modern hermetically sealed mold palaces. A drafty house is a healthy house. That said you need to strike a balance.

3. Plaster walls don't typically grow mold because there is no paper to feed the mold. But typically older houses didn't insulate the walls, there was just a 1" air gap between the late and plaster and the inside face of brick. Where possible in my place, I leave the original plaster. I don't bother insulating exterior walls unless I'm ripping out the wall for one reason or another.

4. If you go full gut, then yeah, I do spray foam (BASF walltite), but now you have the demon of having to introduce fresh air to the place.

5. Spray foam is great until you have a fire and then it's a nightmare.

6. 70 percent of heat loss in a house is right up through the roof.

7. Never ever ever insulate old Masonry walls or block walls from the inside. Keep them warm so the mortar does not freeze. A little heat loss is far better than a crumbling wall.

8. I would be amazed if there wasn't some knob and tube wiring in there that wasn't energized. I fucking hate knob and tube. It's a barbecue starter.

9. If your main sanitary drain stack is cast iron, your insurance company may demand you change it. I love cast iron because it's quiet, but it does corrode. Shame to replace it with ABS ((black plastic), but ABS is so easy to work with.

10. Plumbing vents, if I recall correctly you can have 8 fixtures running off of one 1.5 inch vent and 12 (I'm not 100 percent on that number, could be 20) running off of a 2" vent.

11. Furnace humidifier or not. Depends on if you're lips are getting crackd or you start noticing doors shrinking and not catching any more (yes, that's happened to me.)

12. Windows. I like Loewen. Made in Steinbach Manitoba and they feature a pine core with extruded aluminium cladding on the outside and paintable on the inside (or clear coat). Simply the best Windows on the market. Definitely not cheap. They are really strong and very well made. Available in standard or custom sized.. After Loewen comes Andersen. After Andersen comes Ridley. After Ridley comes nothing.

Www.loewen.com
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
9,924
8,086
113
I am no expert on reno's but it seems like alot of TV shows that do older house always test for lead paint. Is that an issue at your house?
 

angrymime666

Well-known member
May 8, 2008
1,094
653
113
how long do you plan to live there for? if its short term do cosmetic shit on it as that will net you the best return on your investment.

did the building inspector take samples of plaster, pipes, tiles, etc? asbestos was in everything so unless your inspector sent away samples to be lab tested he doesnt know shit all if the house has asbestos in it. yes there are some asbestos products that are noticeable but there are many that are not.

forget the humidifier. if its to dry later down the road you can buy a portable one.

depends on the crawl. some are vented to the outside some are not. you may want to vapour barrier and insulate the floor above the crawl if your floor gets cold. you could also spray foam the crawl inside wall but I think that would be overkill especially if you insulate the floor.

a cat may or may not be a good mouser. mice can get into any hole they can squeeze their head through. find the holes and plug them with steel wool or the expandable rodent spray foam.

if this house was a long term home I would gut one floor at a time. a clean canvas and you can see all the problems and fix them properly and have peace of mind. start at the top and work your way down.
 

anon1

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2001
10,504
2,436
113
Tranquility Base, La Luna
I know someone that just went through the same thing. He had the basement shored and dugged out.
Once finished, it was equivalent to a good sized one bedroom condo worth $500K or more.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,496
1,366
113
I recently purchased a home that is over 100 years old that requires a fair amount of renovations.

There are a lot of joys and challenges when tackling a project like this.

After an inspection with an inspector (who was thorough - a day and a binder of all findings), he discovered that there was no asbestos, the plumbing was old, but it was copper and no leaks (clogged sinks), the wiring was up to date'ish (replaced the fuse panel with a breaker box); and the house passed structurally (joists were solid but the house had settled in the middle (looks like a chimney was taken out years ago and it had settled around that area), it was very dirty having not been cleaned in several years and there was zero mold (I have mold allergies and nothing triggered).

After ripping out 30 year old carpet and then even older tiles and plywood, the original floor was 1.5 inch tongue and groove pine. Unfortunately it was uneven and the total drop from the highest point at the front door to where the chimney used to be was about 4 inches. I ended up building a sub-floor out of 2 x 4's by cutting the bottom of each 2 x 4 to match the dip in the floor and leaving the top of the 2 x 4 level (this was leveled off of the 2 x 4 next to it on 16 inch centers). I covered these up with 3/4 inch plywood. I also insulated the floor by adding rock wool insulation between the 2 x 4's.

The walls are lathe and plaster which is a pain in the ass to work with. I took out one non-load bearing wall to open up the kitchen but I did replace it with an LVL beam as I was concerned because it had a wall directly above it on the second floor and an old brick wall in the small basement directly underneath. The ceiling joist were parallel to the wall, but for $100 of LVL beams it was worth the peace of mind.

The walls were covered with hideous wall paper and instead of trying to peel it off I painted over it with Zinnser Bin 123 shellac paint. That sealed it and covered old stains/odors and allowed me to put a nice latex paint over it.

The furnace is about 15 years old and it does not have a humidifier or air conditioner. I am not too sure if I should add a humidifier as I do not want to add too much water in the air and create a mold issue. I have never owned an old house but they seem to have natural drafts. Coming from an air tight home in the burbs i hated how damp it was. These old homes have a somewhat natural air circulation.

The kitchen walls are the only walls that are not insulated. I am in the process of building two walls inside the existing kitchen (furring walls) and adding rock wool insulation. I will lose about 8 inches of space, but it is easier than tearing out the lath and plaster.

There is a basement that has the furnace and water heater. The rest of house is crawl space and dirt floor. As the snow melts water comes in from the sandy part of the basement and makes its way over to the sump pump.

Finally, the windows are old and will need to be replaced. Nothing is square and a simple fix is usually not that simple.

My three big concerns are:

Basement /crawl space - I would like to seal up the crawl space but I am worried it might upset the natural balance down there and invite other problems.

Furnace Humidifier - Whether I should get a humidifier for the furnace. There are zero mold issues in the house and i want to keep it that way.

Plumbing - I plan to move a bathroom (seems to be one vent in the entire house). I will keep an eye on youtube or may bite the bullet and hire a plumber.

I did find this guy has amazing old home renovation videos - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weTsUYj0FXI

I plan on getting a cat in the event that mice decide to move in (no signs of recent rodent activity but there was evidence from years ago).

Any tips and/or advice on owning a 100 year old home would be appreciated.
Every house has mould somewhere..I don't believe in this climate its really possible to have no mould
 

wazup

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2010
4,280
581
113
For insulation, rent the machine at home depot and blow in the insulation. Drill a hole at the top of the wall big enough for the nozzle and blow it in. Requires 2 people, one to hold the nozzle and one to feed the insulation at the machine. You have to drill a hole in each cavity and patch after.
 

drstrangelove

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
1,203
283
83
First rule when renovating an old house is to throw away your level. You've fixed your floor already and while 4" seems like a lot, over short distances, e.g. the width of tables, dressers, etc, it's something that can be easily fixed by placing small pieces of wood under the legs to level things out. It's not noticeable and it's a lot faster and cheaper.

Good question about structure of your house, if it is brick, adding a wall to your kitchen is a good idea, the plaster and lathe is probably attached to slim strapping, not nearly enough room for insulation. If it's framed, you have options.

I'd cover the crawl space floor with plastic, keeps the summer moisture at bay. We have 2 portable humidifiers going in our 125+ year old house, keeps skin and furniture from drying out in the dry winter air.

Good luck. There is nothing more satisfying than bringing an old run down house back to life.
 

jgd

Member
Aug 30, 2004
250
4
18
Ontario
It is complicated...… My place is over 130 years old and one thing I have learned is that most trades have no idea how to deal with an old property. You need to find an architect and then a contractor who is experienced and respectful of these historic properties. One thing I learned is that the whole building fits together in a way that if you try to swap in something "modern" the dominoes start to fall and other parts of the puzzle will not fit. A house next door even older than mine and one across the street trashed the original windows and put in new. Not only does it not look right, I suspect they don't work as well as the originals would work restored. My home had the original double sash windows complete with the counterweights and ropes and the original "watery glass". They were covered over with "modern" aluminum storms. That aluminum sealed in a lot of moisture and would eventually have done a lot of damage to the wooden frames. I found one original wooden storm window and had wooden storms made for all the windows. I trashed the aluminum storms and found the original colours to paint the wooden frames (dark rifle green and oxblood red). The colours made the house look amazing. People walking down the street would stop and comment. As soon as the wooden storms went up in the fall, the house never felt so cozy. It is a hassle to put the storms up in the fall and take them down each spring but it is well worth it. Having respect for the integrity of the house and restoring the entire system really worked. I am applying that philosophy to the entire restoration and it will take time and money but I know from experience that this will produce the best outcome. The windows in my home are over 130 years old and still work great. I don't think there is anything on the market today that would last even 30 years. Your old house was built to last. You just need to care for it.
 
Ashley Madison
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