Radar Gun Question

[hans4u]

Has anyone ever been pulled over by the police while behind another driver who has also been pulled over?
Does the radar gun allow for multiple vehicles to be stopped like this?

Also, if the police reduce your ticket from 20km over the limit to just 10km over in order to not affect your demerit points but tell you that if you intend to go to court the prosecution will go after you for the 20km then how would they do that if your ticket indicates only 10km?

Is this a scare tactic to not have you fight it? I'd appreciate your comments/experiences.

p.s. This happened in York region

 

[daty]

Ask the question in a POINTS or EXCOPER office on a free consult or betterstill phone the detatchment the officer was from and speak to his/her watch commander ...be polite but do enquire and ask if he/she thinks you should retain legal action ....or is this just a ploy by that officer to join the $100k/yr club thn contact the media as this is such a hot topic now since win or lose the boys and girls in bluw get overtime while in court......

 

[landscaper]

the cop does not want to explain the two for one radar shot, which should also present a defence, ie., which car was speeding and how does he know.

 

[r_u_n_v_us]

The current Besybuy flyer shows a COBRA GPS Speed and Red light indicator for $99! I thought contraptions like these were illegal?!?!?

 

[xix]

Van

This happen to a co-worker , when he got pulled over the cop said there was van watching before the cop and radio the cop about my co's speed. And also the cop had a radar.

It seem fishy and it was fishy. He went to court
While talking to the AG [Attornery General] or prosecutor { I haven't been to court in a decade so I don't know the proper terminology, so sue me.} his claims was that there was no van, AG said it doesn't matter. ALl this time there was cop standing behind the AG as protection like a mafia. The cop gave him the evil eye and AG wanted to settle with right there, he said no.

He didn't settle with her.

At the bench he said the following to the judge:

"I am deemed a liar before I got a chance to speak or defend myself.
It is Not a fair trial if you don’t present factual witness or evidence
So anyone can be accused of anything"

It would be like murder just grab anyone and accuse anyone and change the evidence to cover up their incomptance and their shame.

Judge asks AG where is the proof of van and radar to see what type of quality inspection it passed.
My co-worker hinted this also.

He go off the speeding ticket. The cops dropped their heads in shame.

They are just bullys, by talking big. IT is best to know your rights . Don't ask cops for anything unless you are looking for a tourist landmark.

 

[Aardvark154]

Has anyone ever been pulled over by the police while behind another driver who has also been pulled over? Does the radar gun allow for multiple vehicles to be stopped like this?

Also, if the police reduce your ticket from 20km over the limit to just 10km over in order to not affect your demerit points but tell you that if you intend to go to court the prosecution will go after you for the 20km then how would they do that if your ticket indicates only 10km?

General comments which may not apply in Ontario.

Why would you believe that the Constable has to rely upon the radar for everything? In most places testimony by the Constable that he/she was in a police vehicle with a speedometer that has been calibrated (e.g. at 51 it is actually going 52 etc. . .) and at a certain speed at or over the speed limit had the distinct impression that you were pulling away is enough - often termed "clocking" is enough. The same sort of thing with a "low profile" police vehicle going down the highway at a certain speed and the "gotcha cars" a bit down the highway.

When they "write down" a speeding citation, constables typically put that fact and the actual speed in their notes on the back of the official copies of the citation so the answer to your question would in most jurisdictions be yes.

 

[iprint]

The answer to your first question is yes and the answer to your second question is yes if he is fast enough. They drop the speed limit down for their benefit not yours ( they don't have to go to court). Not all cops want to go to court, just go and fight it he won't be there, and after he writes the ticket he can't change it and go after more.

By the way demerit points don't mean much now a days but the ticket will f##k up your insurance

 

[Mencken]

I think in Ontario the actual speed and the speed you are charged with are both accessible. The ticket is marked in some way so that the fact it was "written down" is recorded. So yes, they probably can charge you with the actual speed.

I say take the 10...the fine is less, no points, and if you were actually speeding what's the big deal. You got lucky.

As for you being behind another vehicle...if it was speeding, you were keeping up to it, then you were speeding too.

 

[Bif_Butkiss]

Ask the question in a POINTS or EXCOPER office on a free consult or betterstill phone the detatchment the officer was from and speak to his/her watch commander ...be polite but do enquire and ask if he/she thinks you should retain legal action ....or is this just a ploy by that officer to join the $100k/yr club thn contact the media as this is such a hot topic now since win or lose the boys and girls in bluw get overtime while in court......

Do you really think that they're going to give you an honest answer when you tell them that the cop fibbed on his paperwork????? As far as the crown going after the "original" speed amount, he won't be able to do it because first of all he's going to have to get the cop to admit on the stand that he his paperwork is false. Right then and there the case should be tossed out of court. Also he can only go after the "infraction" as listed on the ticket, if he tries to go after anything else then where is his "evidence"?
The cop gave you a break thinking that you would just pay it and have it done with rather than "wasting" his time in court over a small fine. It was just a scare tactic, the cop beating his own drum as it were,
As far as I'm concerned the cops are worse crooks than most of the people that they put in jail and the gov. gives them handguns and bulletproof vests. I guess that I'm the only person that sees the hypocracy in this!
Ex-copper and the like will take most any case as it's more money for them. You still have to pay them if you win or loose. The only difference if you win is that the speeding charge won't show up on your driving record.
Good luck.

 

[thompo69]

As far as the crown going after the "original" speed amount, he won't be able to do it because first of all he's going to have to get the cop to admit on the stand that he his paperwork is false. Right then and there the case should be tossed out of court. Also he can only go after the "infraction" as listed on the ticket, if he tries to go after anything else then where is his "evidence"?

This is completely wrong. Police have the authority to lower the speed at roadside, and the prosecutor can bring it back up at trial.

 

[Belleville69]

How the hell are they going to bring it back up??? It says 10 over on the ticket!! You think the cops keep a record of how much they drop each ticket, if any and for who?? come on.....

 

[gww]

How the hell are they going to bring it back up??? It says 10 over on the ticket!! You think the cops keep a record of how much they drop each ticket, if any and for who?? come on.....

Yes when the write the ticket they also note in thier own records the actual speed if they gave you a break. When you go to court the prosecutor knows you got the break.

 

[Asterix]

Has anyone ever been pulled over by the police while behind another driver who has also been pulled over?
Does the radar gun allow for multiple vehicles to be stopped like this?

If you were behind the other vehicle weren't you travelling at the same speed?

 

[thompo69]

How the hell are they going to bring it back up??? It says 10 over on the ticket!! You think the cops keep a record of how much they drop each ticket, if any and for who?? come on.....

No, I don't think that, I know it. Cops keep notes for every ticket they issue. It's how they are able to testify to what happened months after the fact.

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

just go and fight it he won't be there, and after he writes the ticket he can't change it and go after more.

By the way demerit points don't mean much now a days but the ticket will f##k up your insurance

Severely mistaken.

It used to be true that the officer rarely went to court but things have changed and they are now obliged to appear (and get paid for it). It's more likely that the cop WANTS you to go to court so he can make his overtime pay.

As for the ticket and the demerit points, it is precisely the points that increase your cost for insurance as these raise flags on your record.

 

[tboy]

If you were behind the other vehicle weren't you travelling at the same speed?

exactly. If both vehicles were clocked at 20 over, there's no argument.

As for Rub's explanation about Lidar. I remember YEARS ago (like maybe 15?) a garage I used to hang out at had about 6 cops that hung out there too. One came buy in uniform and I can't remember exactly WHY, but he showed the gun window mounted and it flashed the speed of every vehicle passing. He showed me how to adjust the "trap" speed and a car passed by going over the "trap" and it paused for a second and would have kicked over to the next vehicle if he didn't hit the (i guess it was) the pause button.

I don't know about the distance that needs to be between the vehicles for it to read two speeds. Rub is probably correct that it probably has to be quite a bit compared to Lidar.

I got nabbed once on my motorcycle going around a REALLY tight corner once. The cop stopped me for doing 10 over (30 in a 25). I said, that's crap, there's no way I could be doing 50 around that tight corner, you probably read the car in the left lane who although he was behind me, was actually going faster and was about to pass me when you stopped me. I tried to explain the laws of geometry to the cop about how he had to travel a great distance at a greater speed to stay beside me but it fell on deaf ears.

When I went to court to fight it I had this big poster board displaying the corner, the dimensions of the lanes, the radius of the corner, and the formula determining the speed the vehicle was travelling in the second lane in order to be beside me, and to pass me and it distinctly showed that he was the one who was going 5 over. It all fell on deaf ears as I wasn't an "expert". I remember the JP saying it was entertaining though....he did reduce the ticket (btw it was miles at the time so 5 over was a ticketable offence).

 

[TGirl Nikki]

When I went to court to fight it I had this big poster board displaying the corner, the dimensions of the lanes, the radius of the corner, and the formula determining the speed the vehicle was travelling in the second lane in order to be beside me, and to pass me and it distinctly showed that he was the one who was going 5 over. It all fell on deaf ears as I wasn't an "expert". I remember the JP saying it was entertaining though....he did reduce the ticket (btw it was miles at the time so 5 over was a ticketable offence).

Damn, I'd have loved to see that! Kudos for fighting back, but then again, you made the fatal mistake of assuming the cop and judge would actually understand your explanation...

It used to be true that the officer rarely went to court but things have changed and they are now obliged to appear (and get paid for it). It's more likely that the cop WANTS you to go to court so he can make his overtime pay.

Absolutely true - they actually get quadruple pay for showing up to court, and they schedule all the officer's appearances at the same time so they only have to make a few trips every year. They now have a financial incentive to issue as many tickets as possible.

How the hell are they going to bring it back up??? It says 10 over on the ticket!! You think the cops keep a record of how much they drop each ticket, if any and for who?? come on.....

Check the ticket, and look at the box at the bottom, about 2/3rds of the way down... In the top right corner, there's a small box that says "Code". If the cop has given you a ticket with a lower speed than what you were clocked at, there will be an "R" in that box (which I assume stands for "reduced"). The cop's notes will have the exact speed you were clocked at, as well as the fact that you were given an already-reduced ticket.

It used to be different, and you could go to court to get the ticket reduced even further. I've had a few 25-overs that a friendly cop dropped to 10-over, and when I went to court, the Crown dropped it all the way to zero, and the charge was withdrawn entirely. But that's not the case anymore; they think of this as "double-dipping" because you're getting two breaks instead of one. If you choose to take it to court, the Crown Attorney will say, "well, you were clocked at 20 over, so you can either plead guilty to the reduced speed of 10 over (which what the officer wrote on the ticket) or you can plead not guilty to 20 over, and we'll go to trial." They're closing all my favourite loopholes! :-(

My advice? Pay the ticket, and save yourself the hassle.

P.S. Can you tell I've been through this more than a few times? That's why my friends call me "Maria Andretti."

 

[Tiffany_69]

great info. Only been driving 18 months now. No Tickets knock on wood.

 

[TGirl Nikki]

I was nailed once going north on Islington by a cop that did NOT have any radar in her vehicle or outside. A guy who also was stopped drove into the side street where I was pulled over, and asked me 'hey bud, where's the radar'. Apparently, sometimes cops can use landmarks to clock vehicles (they probably tested the elapsed time themselves). I did not see another cop car anywhere, unless the radar or lidar device was hidden somewhere else and remotely controlled.

I got off that ticket because I made a motion under Section 11(b) of the Constitution.

I've been nailed there too, probably in the exact same spot! Right near Pine Valley, where it's still a 50 zone, but turns into a 60 a block away... they're a sneaky bunch, those coppers.

Unfortunately, the Section 11(b) defense (Right to a Speedy Trial, no pun intended) doesn't work anymore either. It used to be that they had to give you a trial within a year of when you got the ticket, but now they include the 15 days that you have to file your request for a trial, and you still have to argue case law to win it... for a while, it was an automatic dismissal, but now the courts are doing whatever they can to squeeze your trial in before the year is up.

They just keep closing all the loopholes! Sooner or later, I might actually have to slow down a bit...

 

[TGirl Nikki]

Oops, I meant Ridge Valley, not Pine Valley - just a little north of Rathburn, south of Eglinton, right by the Country Club.

Anyone else want to share the places they've been caught? Might help us avoid those pesky speed traps in the future...