So nothing was done for several days when Katrina, category 5 hurricane, wiped out New Orleans. A lot of lives, mostly the black poor, were lost. Now when Rita was rushing towards Texas the troops had been prepositioned, aid had been strategically located so that relief could be provided as quickly as possible. Most of the people in Texas are rich and white, not to mention it is where Mr. Bush's brother is governor. Why this double standard? Isn't this racism?
Racism is alive and well in Bush country
- Thread starter kutia
- Start date
Oh shit your post is wrong in so many ways...kutia said:
1) Bush's brother is the governor in Texas??? ouch
2) Ever been to Beaumont, TX. or any other place along the Texas coast? Probably not because than you would know, that some of the poorest people live along the coast line.
25% Blacks, 24% Hispanic and the rest white.
3) Which way do you want it..early help or late help..and you can't have it both ways.
Funny how you mention racism in the USA, especially since it is alive and well in Canada as well.
Just because you hide your poor people, mainly up north, doesn't mean they don't exist.
Is this racism?
Uh..... no.
Let's see -- you're presented with a problem (in this case a hurricane) and you do a bad job of it and people are hurt and killed and you get blamed for the results (along with your employees, appointees etc, etc). If you're Bush, that kind of sucks, so even if you are only half way intelligent you try and see if you can't do a better job the next time the problem comes up.
Couple weeks later the problem comes up again so, if you have any sense at all, you try and learn from your mistakes and do a better job. Seems to me that is what happened with the Federal response to Rita.
Seems pretty simple to me. But I guess if you're an idiot the "non racist" thing to do would be to sit back and let a bunch of white Texan's die (becuase we all know there are no black people in Galveston!) so that the score is even.
Oh and by the way, Jeb Bush is the Governor of Florida, not Texas.
Uh..... no.
Let's see -- you're presented with a problem (in this case a hurricane) and you do a bad job of it and people are hurt and killed and you get blamed for the results (along with your employees, appointees etc, etc). If you're Bush, that kind of sucks, so even if you are only half way intelligent you try and see if you can't do a better job the next time the problem comes up.
Couple weeks later the problem comes up again so, if you have any sense at all, you try and learn from your mistakes and do a better job. Seems to me that is what happened with the Federal response to Rita.
Seems pretty simple to me. But I guess if you're an idiot the "non racist" thing to do would be to sit back and let a bunch of white Texan's die (becuase we all know there are no black people in Galveston!) so that the score is even.
Oh and by the way, Jeb Bush is the Governor of Florida, not Texas.
A No-Win Situation for Dubya
Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your point of view, Dubya is in the unique position of being 'damned if you do or damned if you don't.'
After his bungled response to Katrina he is under extreme political pressure to do better after Rita and doing better there in Texas, a rich and his home state, will only highlight more his poor handling with Katrina in one of the poorest states in the USA.
Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your point of view, Dubya is in the unique position of being 'damned if you do or damned if you don't.'
After his bungled response to Katrina he is under extreme political pressure to do better after Rita and doing better there in Texas, a rich and his home state, will only highlight more his poor handling with Katrina in one of the poorest states in the USA.
We do?langeweile said:
Canada takes far better care of its poor people than the United States does. FAR better. At the very least, we don't ship them off to die in the Middle East.
Whether or not the Bush dynasty is Texan or not -- a point that could be debated, given the family roots -- doesn't matter.cyrus said:Yeah but Bush Dynasty is Texan!
That was his point!
The original assertion that the quick response on one hurricane vs the other was racially motivated is ridiculous. The reason for the better response was they fucked up so badly on the first one that they HAD to do better and in some small ways, KNEW how to do better becuase of the lessons learned after the first one.
The fact that Bush dynasty is Texan does matter, and matter a lot too at least after the fact when the rebuilding & compensation starts. . But I agree with the rest of what you are saying. They fucked up first time but tried to fix it this time!lenharper said:
Not sure if this is racism but you post is certainly idiocity. You obviously do not know much about Houston which is 37% Hispanic, 31% White and 25% Black. And most of Texas is not rich. Like the most of the USA, it's always a small minority of any population with most of the wealth.kutia said:
http://www.ersys.com/usa/48/4835000/ethnic.htm
I think someone else pointed out the Jeb is Governor of Florida.
Also both Louisana and Texas are easily "red" states in case anyone brings that one up.
Dubya's squad was too slow in reaction for Louisiana (shouldn't have been too much a surprise given how clueless he was when 9/11 happened) and to save face they were going to do everything they can for Texas.
Racism occurs within any population I've ever seen. The list of peoples that consider themselves superior to some other people is endless, even regional and cultural...the Southerners in the US and their regard for the Yankees..Catholics verses Protestants. North American Blacks when they visit the Caribbean another example. The Chinese and the Japanese. Talk to Argentinians about Brazilians, and Mexicans about Nicas. New Yorkers and the French verses the rest of the world.langeweile said:
Your comment about Canada 'hiding your poor people mainly up north' one more time shows your ignorance of Canada. Visit Whitehorse sometime and observe who are driving the new trucks. The natives in our Land got bum rap a century ago, everybody knows it. At least we didn't send out the military to exterminate them wholesale like another country I could point the finger at, we did it with booze.
The poor in this county these days are mainly poor because they choose to live that way. You can only help people so far, they have to walk part of the journey on their own legs. Stop slamming Canada over your stupidity, you're embarrassing your countrymen, and risk giving the Canadians here the wrong impression that immigrant Germans are block headed.
Kutia, that was one of the most idiotic posts I've seen in a long time. Others have explained teh reasons why, so I won't elaborate. As for racism, it exists everywhere, in all cultures, all countries.
no you are sending them to be tortured in the middle east....Keebler Elf said:We do?
Canada takes far better care of its poor people than the United States does. FAR better. At the very least, we don't ship them off to die in the Middle East.
I suggest you take a trip to some of your own native reservations, coma back and than talk about it...
AgreeMcluhan said:
Have you been there...??? I have...Mcluhan said:
Be careful with that statement. In the USA this could be considered racism and the ACLU can come after your ass.Mcluhan said:
Funny how this is acceptable to say in Canada, but in the USA you can"t.
The same is true for the uSA. the amount of "special arrangemnets" for minorities is mind boggling, and still many of them don't take advantage of it...but this is a whole seperate discussionMcluhan said:
my statement was purposely rude....thank you for helping me in making a point...lighten up.Mcluhan said:
Of course, otherwise I wouldn't have cited it. I was doing business with the (then) mayor's son...a native indian. One vivid memory of Whitehorse is how cold it was INSIDE the airport in January. Damn cold.langeweile said:
My belief on the poor blacks of the south, at least from what I have seen (and that's not much) is that it's mostly cultural. A people were enslaved for generations. Their work ethic was moulded into the culture, were work was something forced apon them without reward and theft was an acceptable norm. After being set 'free' they were repressed by the whites, still slavery just under a different name. Racism is still very much alive in the South and it may take a few hundred years to normalize to an upwardly mobile culture, (whatever that truly means, i'm not sure).
Living in the Caribbean was an eye-opener for me in this regard. In populations that are 98% black, there are bars on all the ground floor windows, no matter what neighbourhood. The bars are there for a good reason. But violent crime is very minimal. The reason is (partly) because the jails are an eighteen century hell hole and they still hang people for murder in many jurisdictions. On the upside, heart attacks from stress are a foreign concept, and if you arrive a half hour late, you're on time. Just don't run over and kill someone's goat on the road, you could be doing hard time.
A question, not rhetorical: preamble - I love to flyfish and have had many trips to northern Satch. and Manitoba (hold Master angler awards, one near world record). The camps and areas I have been to are pristine. But, the contacts we have had with Native People have been discouraging. I recall having to stay in Stoney Rapids, NWT, an extra day due to weather and watching teenagers openly share beer and cigarettes with younger siblings. I recall noting the boundary on the Churchill River between the leased land of our hosts camp and the Native Land - garbage, beer cans, even human waste not properly cared for.
My question - Why?
My question - Why?
You are corrrect i completely agree with you. Just don't paint all Southerners with the same brush.My few good friends I have are hispanic and blacks.Mcluhan said:
I have absolutely no tolerance for racists I despise them in all of their ugly forms.
After living in Georgia an Texas for several years to my big surprise there are as many black and brown racists as their are whites.
In my field of work we depend a lot on "minimum wage earners". Most of the time they are either Black, Hispanic or Asian. My experience is first hand.
The other thing i have noticed amongst blacks, at least from my experience, that the older generation of black people, has a very strong value system. They are hardworking people, it seems that the younger generation has more of a chip on their shoulder. again this is my limited personal experience.
I too have fished in both northern Sask and Man and can relate. Lots of reasons combine to explain that. The primary reason is alcohol. It's pervasive. Plus there is no stong central cultural authority in most poor indian bands. No local industry. No way to get ahead. Spousal abuse, child abuse, alcoholism reign. Remove alcohol from the equation, and things would be dramtically different. But it can't be done. Compare this environment to the West coast bands for example. Much different picture. Same problems persist, but to a much lessor degree. IMHO the Catholic church has done as much harm as good in these areas, which is a matter of public record these days. (no thanks to God)Vietor said:
Thanks. They seem to be caught between a hunter - gatherer age and the 21st century; no place to go, no way out. A very depressing (emotionally and economically) juxtaposition between a way of life that no longer works and those of us who are "sportsmen", bringing in our $1000's of equipment, paying more for 5 days of fishing than their annual per capita earnings.
The paternal treatment they have traditionally received from the government doesn't help either. The policy has been to shovel huge amounts of money their way (most of which disappears into local corruption troughs in and around the Band Councils) and otherwise simply leave them to rot. This sort of practice is not exactly conducive to forming a population capable of taking part in a modern economy.
Yes, your comment is perfectly acurate (to me anyway). This discussion made me recall an experience that might relate. In my youth I was working on the gas pipeline in Northern Alberta as an apprentice pipe fitter. One night buddy and I drove the 60 miles into Slave Lake for a few beers in minus 35 degree (F) to the largest hotel in the community, the ‘white bar', a place then called The Algonquin. The intel had been “ The A” was a safe place to go, whereas the ‘Indian bar’ in downtown Slave, (The Pen) was considered life threatening to us white guys (said while clenching teeth for proper dialect).Vietor said:
The place was huge and jammed with patrons. We grabbed a table on the perimeter of the big open room right next to the entrance door. There were some pool tables in the centre of the bar. In the otherwise dim smoky atmosphere the bright overhead lights of the tables combined with a domed 35 ft ceiling made the area stand out like a well lit showcase. Within a few minutes a ruckus occurred at the tables.
There was a big cowboy fella, standing about 6’6’+ his cowboy boots, dressed in a light-blue outfit like Gene Autrey, with the ten gallon white Stetson and complete with the dangling frays on his sleeves. To me he appeared even at some distance like a giant of a man, way larger than life. He was probably a rig driller. An argument occurred between the cowboy giant and some other player. The big cowboy was staggering drunk. He jumped up on pool table, beer in hand, and began to kick the pool balls, like a punter, one by one, taking his sweet time. Every 30 seconds another billiard ball would fly across the room in some random direction at the speed and force of a solidly hit line drive and crash off the furniture. Then after a pause and a swig of beer, he’d line-drive-kick another ball.
A remarkable thing was how the rest of the room reacted - they paid no attention whatsoever except to shift a bit in their chairs if a ball came whistling by close enough for concern. Waitresses delivered trays of beer. People talked, drank, laughed at each other’s jokes, situation normal. The cowboy’s woman sitting nearby, “a squaw” as she was referred to, came staggering over to the table, herself equally intoxicated. She grabbed at his pant leg in an effort to pull him down. He turned, cursing and kicked her full in the face. With blood leaking down onto her white sweater, she went for him again. Had I been in her place receiving that kick in the chops, I would have surely been out cold on the floor. She came back for more.
Meanwhile, I became aware of the presence of two young RCMP officers standing behind me, just inside the bar doors. The bar keeper had probably called them. I watched them off-and-on for the moments I could tear my eyes away from the incredible thing I was witnessing. They were calm, but seemed little apprehensive. They remained motionless, watching. About 2 more kicks to the head and the woman slumped back into her chair, blood soaking her white sweater thick red.
After what seemed like a very long time the cowboy ran out of billiard balls and finally just stood there swaying on the table top. Finally the RCMP officers approached the table, where upon the man climbed down, and went away with them peacefully. There was no violence, no guns drawn, no handcuffs, just two officers escorting the drunken cowboy away for the evening, each officer with a hand firmly on one of the cowboy’s arms. The dazed and bloody woman was helped to her feet by two of her nearby girlfriends, and taken away somewhere.
For me it was a very bizarre scene that I would imagine seeing only in a movie. For the locals, it was probably just another evening at the bar. It was one of many lessons I was to learn about the Canadian north, demonstating it’s own unique ways as a culture that stands well apart from the rest of Canadian society.
