Question re: advertiser ethics

[JoyfulC]

Yesterday I received an e-mail for a special offer on something I've been wanting to buy. The special price was $335.75. The e-mail was set up in html format with a graphic that was hosted on the seller's server.

I went to the site to order, but when I did, the online form kept coming back with a price of $355.50. So I phoned their toll-free number and ordered that way. I already received a confirmation with a detail of price and shipping, showing $335.75.

But today, I was looking at that same e-mail again, and now the graphic shows a price of $355.50. Obviously, they changed this since yesterday.

In printed advertising, I believe that it's illegal not to honour an advertised price.

But what happens in a case like this, where they can actually change the price in the e-mail that you receive, simply by modifying the graphic?

I believe that they will honour yesterday's advertised price for me, but what if someone saw it yesterday, then went back on Monday? Would they still be obliged to honour the price they originally advertised in yesterday's e-mail? How could a purchaser prove that's what they advertised? I believe this company is honest (and I probably lucked out) but I see a hell of an opportunity for bait-&-switch here.

..c..

 

[tboy]

Is or was there a disclaimer that stated "prices subject to change without notice", "price valid until.....", or "limited items available at the advertised price" statement?

On most print advertisements there is one or more of the statements. if there is no statement present you could (if so desired) sue to obtain the item at the advertised price. Most sellers rely on a consumers reluctance to pursue legal action to obtain an item at an advertised price. In most cases the cost to take legal action far outweighs any discount. In addition, if an advertiser prints or distributes a correction notice of a misprint immediately, one's recourse is limited.

This applies mostly to print but with the influx of internet advertising I should think the rules and regs apply to the net as well.

 

[oldjones]

Well, you have no beef unless they don't live up to the deal that you say they confirmed w/ price and all.

Does someone have a beef if they saw a price advertised one day, and then a day or so later saw that the same ad now has an overlay sticker w/ a new price? Not really, they've spent nothing and incurred no costs. Not quite the same thing as arriving at the shop to find a higher price or shoddier goods. That's B&S, and as tboy says, there is legal recourse.

It's much more akin to airline pricing—maybe it is airline pricing?—where the price paid for a seat at any given moment holds only for that moment. By manipulating prices, up if the market will bear, and down if they're in danger of flying bumless seats around the country, airlines attempt to max their return/dollar of cost. Which means the price you saw moments ago may not be the price now. Like the stock market.

It is galling to find yourself next to someone who paid way less than you (so don't ask) and it makes shopping a crapshoot and far more work, but is it "unfair" to change your price, as long as you deliver the seat promised, for the price agreed? Don't thinkso. Not nice. Sure. But it's been a long time since business was nice.

 

[JoyfulC]

In this case, the original e-mail that was sent to me on August 20 said that the offer was good until August 27.

But unless I saved the original graphic, how would I prove that? Since the graphic is served by the seller's site, they can change it any time and what proof does anyone have? When I went back to view the original e-mail that they sent me, the graphic had been changed to show a different price.

..c..

 

[Keebler Elf]

The company can prove by the date of your receipt/email when you paid and compare it to whatever price they were charging at that particular time. There is nothing that stops a company from lowering the price at a later date. Some places will refund the difference if you paid more just before the price dropped, but I wouldn't expect that from an online store.

You could look into cancelling your order and, if it works, then re-ordering at the lower price. But whose to say the price won't drop again?

 

[tboy]

Joyful, even if you had saved the original graphic that really wouldn't help you as you would have been able to manipulate the original after downloading it to your machine.

Just a heads up: as far as I know, emails and copies of them, are not useable in court as evidence as they too can be manipulated.

 

[goodtime]

...It's much more akin to airline pricing—maybe it is airline pricing?—where the price paid for a seat at any given moment holds only for that moment. By manipulating prices, up if the market will bear, and down if they're in danger of flying bumless seats around the country, airlines attempt to max their return/dollar of cost. Which means the price you saw moments ago may not be the price now. Like the stock market.

It is galling to find yourself next to someone who paid way less than you (so don't ask) and it makes shopping a crapshoot and far more work, but is it "unfair" to change your price, as long as you deliver the seat promised, for the price agreed? Don't thinkso. Not nice. Sure. But it's been a long time since business was nice.

Which is why when I book online, I keep multiple windows open comparing between sites especially limited sale or around time sale expires. And even same site may have hidden deals or report no seat but if you're patient something usually turns up. Even though most of them use the same backend travel search engine, they report/hold seats differently.

Same goes for hotels & rental cars.

With Dell computer, you can get 6 different prices from web/phone in same region & various promotion combination.

With order over the web, I always print or save the cost, and only reputable biz but can still be hassle/time consuming to talk to supervisor on shift/person in charge.

 

[JoyfulC]

I just received a call from them -- they adjusted my shipping costs up by very close to the difference between the original price advertised to me (the one I paid on Saturday) and the new price on the graphic on Sunday. Hell of a coincidence, eh?

(Keebler, FYI, the price wasn't lowered -- it was raised. The graphic in the e-mail I received Saturday morning quoted $335, but when I opened the same e-mail on Sunday, it said $355. This graphic wasn't embedded in the e-mail -- rather it was linked to its location on their server. The reason why I have an ethics question about this is because, if I had waited until today to order, the price would have been higher, even though the original advertised price in the e-mail was supposed to have been good until August 27. How would I have ever been able to prove that was the original advertised price?)

..c..

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Advertisers have ethics?

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Why am I blue?

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Why am I blue?

Go Leafs Go

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Go Leafs Go

Ahh.

 

[JoyfulC]

Good idea, Sheik -- but the whole thing just didn't sit right with me, so I phoned them back and said that if they weren't prepared to honour the original advertised price and quote for shipping, then I was canceling my order.

I ended up having to talk to FOUR people -- and Fred was shaking his head that all of us would spend this much time arguing over $20 stinking dollars -- but this is something I feel very strongly about!

The reason I feel so strongly is that I'm not someone who is very comfortable with being dishonest. And for years, I got punished for that. Before the web, escorts used to have to rely on classified ads and verbal descriptions over the phone to get business. Guys would phone me and I'd be honest about age, weight, etc. Then they'd phone the next ad, and she'd claim to be way younger, way skinnier, way more shapely, way more beautiful, and sometimes even way cheaper -- so they'd run off and see someone who told them all that!

When (and if!) they ever got around to seeing me, it wasn't uncommon for them to tell me all their stories about being ripped off, baited-&-switched and nickeled-&-dimed -- and then they'd say, "I should have just come and seen you in the first place. You look way better!"

But when I would ask them what they did when they found out they had been deceived by an advertiser, more often than not, they'd say that they went through with it anyway. Very few had the gumption to turn on their heel and walk out.

So this amounted to punishing honest escorts and rewarding dishonesty. It also put tremendous pressure on escorts to be dishonest, as it was far more rewarding to be that way.

That's why, when I'm the customer, I don't want to allow myself to be screwed over. I really, really want this item I purchased -- and I know I'll enjoy it (and some of you might too! ) -- but I was fully prepared to walk away from it if they weren't prepared to be fair about it.

And the funny thing, too, is that I've come to believe that the originally advertised price was just a mistake. If they would have just come clean about that, I would have appreciated the honesty and just paid the extra $20.

But this situation does demonstrate a real ethics loophole for internet advertisers.

..c..
ps. I'm not over the lockout yet -- I dont want to hear about hockey until at least next month!

 

[hambone]

-- and I know I'll enjoy it (and some of you might too! ) -- !

I would give odds on that!!

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Way to stick to your guns JoyfulC. It is the principal and not the $20 that matters IMO. Good for you to make them live up to their word.

I am not so sure about your comparing it to the adult biz though. As an adult advertising sales rep I have talked to almost all my clients who I know are using B&S pics on their websites and in print ads. We all know of whom I am speaking. The first thing they tell me it's impossible to get girls from their culture to post their pics on-line or in the paper.

But the second most important thing they tell me is the turn over of refusals at the door is very very low. 99.5 of the guys when they arrive at the incall or someone comes to their door will take whatever is presented to them. Remember they are thinking with a whole new mind set in this industry. I think it will be ions if ever you can make enough guys turn them back to make such a dent in their business that they will start to change their tactics.

Good for you though. Stick to your guns... you go girl.

 

[JoyfulC]

I am not so sure about your comparing it to the adult biz though. As an adult advertising sales rep I have talked to almost all my clients who I know are using B&S pics on their websites and in print ads. We all know of whom I am speaking. The first thing they tell me it's impossible to get girls from their culture to post their pics on-line or in the paper.

And why is that? After all, they have the ability to block out the face and any identifying features. There comes a point where that argument doesn't hold water.

But the second most important thing they tell me is the turn over of refusals at the door is very very low. 99.5 of the guys when they arrive at the incall or someone comes to their door will take whatever is presented to them.

EXACTLY! I guess things haven't changed much, then, despite the wonders of the internet.

When I ran Lyla's List, there were advertisers who came to me and asked if I could paste their heads on some body they clipped out of a magazine. I never did it, but I'm sure there are plenty who do. And it's a shame to learn that there are still customers who get suckered by that and don't have the backbone to walk away from it.

Remember they are thinking with a whole new mind set in this industry.

What new mindset?

I think it will be ions if ever you can make enough guys turn them back to make such a dent in their business that they will start to change their tactics.

But why is that?

I understand what it's like to have someone really turn the screws -- I got it today in this situation (they ran every type of bullshit on me they could muster), and I get it all the time when I go to spend my money.

But why exactly is it that escort customers should be such pushovers? As an escort, quite frankly, I wish they'd be tough customers. I can handle that.

And that's also why, when I'm spending my $$, I'm a tough customer. I believe that when the majority of customers allow themselves to get walked all over, it encourages shady operators at the expense of those who are ethical.

That said, though, I'd like to note that the company in question in this situation is one that I've dealt with before and they've always been excellent in the past. I am _very_ impressed with their products, and up 'til now, their service has been top-notch, as well.

..c..

 

[goodtime]

...
EXACTLY! I guess things haven't changed much, then, despite the wonders of the internet.
...
But why is that?
...
But why exactly is it that escort customers should be such pushovers? As an escort, quite frankly, I wish they'd be tough customers. I can handle that.

Most guys are "just so horny by the time girls arrive, they will do anyone that half ressemble a female" so I'm told.

Joyful, in Canada I believe CMA has juridication over ad-misrepresentation. In U.S., try BBB.

 

[JoyfulC]

Most guys are "just so horny by the time girls arrive, they will do anyone that half ressemble a female" so I'm told.

That's a pretty sad assessment of "most guys," IMO!

I guess it's still a seller's market - in spite of the internet.

..c..