One of my friends just returned from a business trip in China. According to him, you can have a gorgeous SP for a whole night at about USD150 to 200 in major metro cities. And even cheaper in less glamourous places. Also he was shocked by the way the SPs solicited business. The girls kept calling you once you checked in a hotel, until you budged in, he said; and he suspected that the front desk and the girls worked together for slices of the pie. They were so open and plucky that he forgot he was in a Communist state. This is good news. The bad news though, is that China, along with India, Russia, currently ranks one of the most HIV and AIDS-plagued nations, right after African countries in the world.
Prostitution Flourishes In China
- Thread starter Aaltogropius
- Start date
Re: Re: Prostitution Flourishes In China
Totally agreed. It's good news for those who will go to China for bsuiness and want to have some romp; it's bad news for those who have been affected or will be by HIV/AIDS. Lack of sex education and info about STDs, HIV, AIDs, lack of funds to prevent, cure, and combat such plagues, and sudden westernization......all contributed to today's crisis.Lickman said:
calm down guys it's not that serious.
Even though It is fair to say that China's AIDS + HIV+ population have been booming. However, most of the outbreak have been localized to two regions (neither tourist hotbeds and both very much out of the way of the normal western businessmen). Both outbreaks are due primarily to needle sharing and drug abuse. Relatively little AIDS activity in China is actually caused by prostitution. To compare China to countries like the african countries of the world is simply ridiculous. The actual # of aids victims might be high, but as a % of total population it's absolutely insignificant.
When you are hobbying, simple common sense would dictate that you protect yourself. Even though AIDS is not that prevalent in asia, other STDs are. And I would imagine that the Sps in China are just as careful about protecting themselves as their western counterparts. I have never met a sp/mp in asia who did not use condoms. Sex education might be lacking in some areas but certainly not among the professional workers.
The price $150-200USd is very much on the high end. You can get laid in most places in china (beijing, shanghai, shenzhen excluded) for 20-30$ USD easily - assuming that you look chinese. If you are caucasian, you should find free sex so easily that the thought of paying never crosses your mind.
Even though It is fair to say that China's AIDS + HIV+ population have been booming. However, most of the outbreak have been localized to two regions (neither tourist hotbeds and both very much out of the way of the normal western businessmen). Both outbreaks are due primarily to needle sharing and drug abuse. Relatively little AIDS activity in China is actually caused by prostitution. To compare China to countries like the african countries of the world is simply ridiculous. The actual # of aids victims might be high, but as a % of total population it's absolutely insignificant.
When you are hobbying, simple common sense would dictate that you protect yourself. Even though AIDS is not that prevalent in asia, other STDs are. And I would imagine that the Sps in China are just as careful about protecting themselves as their western counterparts. I have never met a sp/mp in asia who did not use condoms. Sex education might be lacking in some areas but certainly not among the professional workers.
The price $150-200USd is very much on the high end. You can get laid in most places in china (beijing, shanghai, shenzhen excluded) for 20-30$ USD easily - assuming that you look chinese. If you are caucasian, you should find free sex so easily that the thought of paying never crosses your mind.
My friend stayed in five-star hotels and the SPs he had were of higher quality in terms of looks and services.leery said:
Experts have predicted that China will have 10 to 20 million people living with HIV/AIDS by year 2010, mainly caused by injecting drug use, blood products and transfusions, prostitution, and homosexuality.
As I recall, there was a thread about the sex indusry in China(beijing,Shanghai), earleir this year by someone with the name Joe something.. I think his point is that sex for hire is very available, but risky because the LE are all over the place.
I do find your comment below interesting. As far as I know, many asian girls do not like to date caucasians because(1)they are too hairy, and (2) they are too big down there. In general, they prefer the cute ones, i.e.Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt type as opposed to masculiine type like Sean Connery
I do find your comment below interesting. As far as I know, many asian girls do not like to date caucasians because(1)they are too hairy, and (2) they are too big down there. In general, they prefer the cute ones, i.e.Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt type as opposed to masculiine type like Sean Connery
leery said:
There was a good article about HIV in the Foreign Affairs of Nov/Dec 2002 by Nicholas Eberstadt. Nobody has any idea of how many current cases there are: health authorities in Beijing announced 600,000 HIV positive Chinese in August 2001; in July 2002 UNAIDS estimated 850,000 with the concurrence of China's government; in September '02 the Chinese Health Ministry raised the official estimate to one million; US intelligence estimates 1-2 million; guesses by informed people have gone as high as 6 million. The Chinese government does not enjoy reporting massive health problems. Remember SARS?Aaltogropius said:
Both Chinese authorities and UNAIDS agree that prevalence has been increasing recently by 20-30 percent per year.; the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention also note that at current rates the number of victims could double in 30 months (which is 32% per annum - someone at the CDC, apparently, is the happy owner of a calculator).
The author's model for spread of the disease predicts 32 million HIV positive cases to 2025 in a "mild" epidemic; 70 million in an intermediate one; 100 million in a severe one, with corresponding deaths of 19, 40 and 58 million.
Groups at risk include, as always, commercial sex workers.
Eberstadt is an American "think-tank" employee; his essay in Foreign Affairs was based on his co-authored work The AIDS Pandemic Draws a Bead on Eurasia The Foreign Affairs article is reprinted at The Future of AIDS
Hey Aaltogropius,
Is your friend a Chinese?
It is kind of curious since not many SP can speak English. They may try to learn some Cantonese, though.
Lickman is right, China is not on the list to visit (for hobbying). Thailand or Phillippines or Japan is preferable.
BTW, quite a number of LE over there are both the real deal and pimps themselves. They will strike hard when Beijing orders some "house, fall or spring cleaning", whenever it may be, back to "normal" when Beijing is busy on other agendas.
Getting laid for USD$150 to $200 is totally rip off. You get much better deal here in North America for both incalls and outcalls, plus more varieties of girls to see and menu for the same money.
Getting laid for USD$20 to $30 has a reason, that is you get laid really fast like a Ferrari, although not necessarily furious and more menu to choose from!!
BTW, the acute AIDS situation in China has more to do with denial, cover up and the notion of "westernized" disease. In other words, the disease associates more with homosexuality, something many Chinese believe non-Chinese in nature. Plus, China will lose face big time if the supposedly "middle kingdom" asks western powers for help.
If you don't believe, look at how they deal with the SARs.
Something never changes.
Is your friend a Chinese?
It is kind of curious since not many SP can speak English. They may try to learn some Cantonese, though.
Lickman is right, China is not on the list to visit (for hobbying). Thailand or Phillippines or Japan is preferable.
BTW, quite a number of LE over there are both the real deal and pimps themselves. They will strike hard when Beijing orders some "house, fall or spring cleaning", whenever it may be, back to "normal" when Beijing is busy on other agendas.
Getting laid for USD$150 to $200 is totally rip off. You get much better deal here in North America for both incalls and outcalls, plus more varieties of girls to see and menu for the same money.
Getting laid for USD$20 to $30 has a reason, that is you get laid really fast like a Ferrari, although not necessarily furious and more menu to choose from!!
BTW, the acute AIDS situation in China has more to do with denial, cover up and the notion of "westernized" disease. In other words, the disease associates more with homosexuality, something many Chinese believe non-Chinese in nature. Plus, China will lose face big time if the supposedly "middle kingdom" asks western powers for help.
If you don't believe, look at how they deal with the SARs.
Something never changes.
Quote from this news story from a few days ago:
"Prostitution is technically illegal in China, but the police not only usually turn a blind eye to the trade, they often control it and take a rake-off."
If you think about it, police in Canada knowingly let just about all MP's, agencies, and incalls break our anti-prostitution laws, but you never hear anyone in the media imply that there's corruption.
"Prostitution is technically illegal in China, but the police not only usually turn a blind eye to the trade, they often control it and take a rake-off."
If you think about it, police in Canada knowingly let just about all MP's, agencies, and incalls break our anti-prostitution laws, but you never hear anyone in the media imply that there's corruption.
LarryL: Actually not long ago in Lunge Area, there was a thread arguing, backed up with some media reports, that North American-born Asian women prefer Caucasian men to Asian men when it comes to dating, if not marriage. Does that support Leery's observation? Or what's the women's preference in China and what's recently immigrant Chinese women's preference in North America? I don't know.
Pyro: 10 to 20 million people is more than the total population of some small countries in the world. If these victims happen to concentrate in one region or neighboring regions, or given the increasingly high mobility of Chinese population, poor and inadequate preventive measures, although still in small number compared to entire population, they could cause rampancy.
midLifeCrisis: What can I say? You always have some academic and archival type of info readily available. To say you are the master librarian seems never an overstatement.
dudelove: My friend is Caucasian. If he was Chinese, he would not have paid that much. But still, you misread my post. He had gorgeous SPs for entire nights( at least 12 hours ) at USD150 to 200, NOT for one hour. Where in Toronto can you find such offerings, regardless of incalls or outcalls? Maybe are you keeping these sweet deals for yourself
?
HaywoodJabloemy: You have corruption everywhere. The only difference is how much or how less, that is, to what degree.
Pyro: 10 to 20 million people is more than the total population of some small countries in the world. If these victims happen to concentrate in one region or neighboring regions, or given the increasingly high mobility of Chinese population, poor and inadequate preventive measures, although still in small number compared to entire population, they could cause rampancy.
midLifeCrisis: What can I say? You always have some academic and archival type of info readily available. To say you are the master librarian seems never an overstatement.
dudelove: My friend is Caucasian. If he was Chinese, he would not have paid that much. But still, you misread my post. He had gorgeous SPs for entire nights( at least 12 hours ) at USD150 to 200, NOT for one hour. Where in Toronto can you find such offerings, regardless of incalls or outcalls? Maybe are you keeping these sweet deals for yourself
?HaywoodJabloemy: You have corruption everywhere. The only difference is how much or how less, that is, to what degree.
Aaltogropius: China's in a stage (much like Japan in the 80s) where the economy is booming and everything westernized is sought after. A LOT of chinese women would love to sink their claws into a Caucasian with a US/Canada visa in the hopes of being able to come abroad. So the free sex is more of a basic investment in their own future. But keep in mind, these girls are usually not looking for 1-night-stands... but more using sex as a means of generating a long-term relationship resulting in marriage. A lot of North American born asian women do want to date caucasians men at some point in their lives - because of simple curiousity and wanting something different. They usually end up marrying good old chinese boys after they get it out of their systems tho (personal observation).
I agree that 10-20 MM ppl with aids is nothing to joke about. But we are talking about HIV as it relates to prostitution, and I was simply pointing out that given the number of sex workers in china, and the relative few cases of aids caused by straight sex, the odds of meeting a SP with aids is almost non-existent.
Dudelove, for $150-200 USD, you will get model like girls who will stay the night. that's much much cheaper than any north american competition. You are right in saying that prostitution is a semi-tolerated item in china tho, and the LE does control a lot of it. The biggest brothel in Beijing is owned by a former police captain. And in MOSt hotels (2star-5 star), there will be a "sauna" area in the lobby where sps can be found for $25USD and up.
But in any case, sps would charge $25-30 in some areas simply because the standard of living for chinese outside of Beijing / Shanghai is fairly low - not because the quality of the service/girls is poor. Most $25 girls I've had in china provide better service + looks than $250 girls here.
Having been to Thailand, Phillipines, Malay and the rest of south-eastern asia... I would say the hobbying experience in china is far far superior. Of course... I'm Chinese so that might explain everything.
I agree that 10-20 MM ppl with aids is nothing to joke about. But we are talking about HIV as it relates to prostitution, and I was simply pointing out that given the number of sex workers in china, and the relative few cases of aids caused by straight sex, the odds of meeting a SP with aids is almost non-existent.
Dudelove, for $150-200 USD, you will get model like girls who will stay the night. that's much much cheaper than any north american competition. You are right in saying that prostitution is a semi-tolerated item in china tho, and the LE does control a lot of it. The biggest brothel in Beijing is owned by a former police captain. And in MOSt hotels (2star-5 star), there will be a "sauna" area in the lobby where sps can be found for $25USD and up.
But in any case, sps would charge $25-30 in some areas simply because the standard of living for chinese outside of Beijing / Shanghai is fairly low - not because the quality of the service/girls is poor. Most $25 girls I've had in china provide better service + looks than $250 girls here.
Having been to Thailand, Phillipines, Malay and the rest of south-eastern asia... I would say the hobbying experience in china is far far superior. Of course... I'm Chinese so that might explain everything.
as an aside,
a friend of mine (also asian), went back to a smaller city (we are talking about 5million population here instead of 15...), in central china for vacation a few month ago. He claimed to see Sps 3 times a day (confirmed by other sources) - one after each meal and never repeating with ones that he's seen. And spent less than $3000 USD on his entire trip (not including lodgings and air fare)... I saw some of his pictures and I'm drooling.
go figure... where else are you gonna find value like that .
a friend of mine (also asian), went back to a smaller city (we are talking about 5million population here instead of 15...), in central china for vacation a few month ago. He claimed to see Sps 3 times a day (confirmed by other sources) - one after each meal and never repeating with ones that he's seen. And spent less than $3000 USD on his entire trip (not including lodgings and air fare)... I saw some of his pictures and I'm drooling.
go figure... where else are you gonna find value like that .
I just returned from a trip to China. I was only able to pursue The Hobby in Beijing.
In five nights, I saw a total of 6 ladies. One approached me in the lobby of my hotel, and I picked the others up in either the Hard Rock Cafe or Maggie's Bar, thanks to info posted on the World Sex Guide.
The girls in the bars uaually start out by asking 1000 RMB (about C$165), but they will negotiate down to 600 to 800 RMB (C$100 to 130). I paid a total of 4300 RMB (C$725) for 6 encounters and a total of 7 SOG.
I would say that 5 of the 6 ladies were GFE's, although one (a part-timer who claimed to be a nurse) stood out over the others. There was no difference in the safety level between them and similar Canadian SP's, as far as I could tell. In fact, all the ladies took showers in my room before the action started. DFK and BBBJ (TC in one case) were on the menu. BBFS was never offered (not that I would have partaken anyway).
There were also male and female pimps right outside the hotel offering "beautiful girls". Since I never see street girls, I ignored them, so I don't know if the above applies to them.
In five nights, I saw a total of 6 ladies. One approached me in the lobby of my hotel, and I picked the others up in either the Hard Rock Cafe or Maggie's Bar, thanks to info posted on the World Sex Guide.
The girls in the bars uaually start out by asking 1000 RMB (about C$165), but they will negotiate down to 600 to 800 RMB (C$100 to 130). I paid a total of 4300 RMB (C$725) for 6 encounters and a total of 7 SOG.
I would say that 5 of the 6 ladies were GFE's, although one (a part-timer who claimed to be a nurse) stood out over the others. There was no difference in the safety level between them and similar Canadian SP's, as far as I could tell. In fact, all the ladies took showers in my room before the action started. DFK and BBBJ (TC in one case) were on the menu. BBFS was never offered (not that I would have partaken anyway).
There were also male and female pimps right outside the hotel offering "beautiful girls". Since I never see street girls, I ignored them, so I don't know if the above applies to them.
I have heard something similar to your observation, so I am inclined to agree with you.leery said:
The rates you quoted are for one night, aren't they? If so ( each girl for each night ), it means you really didn't cum too muchAvery said:
. I am just curious and no pun intended.The Mongolian girls, in particular, are reputed to be willing to spend the whole night for around 1000 RMB, or around C$170. However, there's no way I'd risk spending the night with a girl I didn't already know well, especially in a strange country. I'm not that trusting, even in a hotel room with a safe. I was only looking for an unrushed hour or so with each lady.
As far as the number of SOG's is concerned, I had 7 with 6 different girls (one was a dud) in 5 nights, and I'm close to 60 (shit, did I say that?), so I was satisfied. We all reach the stage where we have to pace ourselves a little.
As far as the number of SOG's is concerned, I had 7 with 6 different girls (one was a dud) in 5 nights, and I'm close to 60 (shit, did I say that?), so I was satisfied. We all reach the stage where we have to pace ourselves a little.
leery, I have known those infos. It just happens to be Aaltogropius doesn't give a full picture.
Having been to China several times, mostly in Shenzhen. I don't find the Chinese SPs attractive. In fact I find them as a turn off since many of them just plain annoying, especially when you have pretty knowledge on their lifestyle, attitudes, mentality, the way they talk and the list goes on and on. Those overseas Chinese immigrants, NOT Canadian Born Chinese would pretty know what are these about.
IMHO, I would rather spend time with gorgeous white SPs, preferably the blondes than the Chinese counterparts. It's much rauchier, wild and fun to be with, for action sakes. It may be true the same money can spend the whole night with Chinese GFE back there, whatever it may be. But I feel kind of tired to see the "same-old, same-old" for the duration.
In general white girls, especially the blondes and redheads are red hot compare to the same age group of Chinese girls. Some Chinese guys might disagree, saying that the white girls are too "heavy" and too tough a challenge to satisfy , if you know what I mean ;-) plus their looks and bodies aren't being kept in shape longer and better than the Chinese couterparts.
I really don't care though whether the white SP thinks the time with me is like spending time with cold fish. It's just business and chances are I may not see her again anytime soon.
You only score the Chinese girls if you consider a long haul. It's tough, if not impossible to have white girls spending a long haul with Asian guy.
BTW, you think only the mainland Chinese SPs "invest" relationship to any "hobbyists" having US visa/ Canadian permanent resident status/citizenship, regardless of whether he is a Chinese or Caucasian. Think again!!
If any of you guys know the cases for some Russian women or Eastern European women whose use methods such as bogus marriage to get some kind of legit identities here in North America, some mainland Chinese women use exactly the same tactics, regardless of whether she is a SP or not.
The only difference is the mainstream society knows more on EE/Russian case than the Chinese ones, plus those Chinese women usually target on the overseas Chinese themselves.
Having been to China several times, mostly in Shenzhen. I don't find the Chinese SPs attractive. In fact I find them as a turn off since many of them just plain annoying, especially when you have pretty knowledge on their lifestyle, attitudes, mentality, the way they talk and the list goes on and on. Those overseas Chinese immigrants, NOT Canadian Born Chinese would pretty know what are these about.
IMHO, I would rather spend time with gorgeous white SPs, preferably the blondes than the Chinese counterparts. It's much rauchier, wild and fun to be with, for action sakes. It may be true the same money can spend the whole night with Chinese GFE back there, whatever it may be. But I feel kind of tired to see the "same-old, same-old" for the duration.
In general white girls, especially the blondes and redheads are red hot compare to the same age group of Chinese girls. Some Chinese guys might disagree, saying that the white girls are too "heavy" and too tough a challenge to satisfy , if you know what I mean ;-) plus their looks and bodies aren't being kept in shape longer and better than the Chinese couterparts.
I really don't care though whether the white SP thinks the time with me is like spending time with cold fish. It's just business and chances are I may not see her again anytime soon.
You only score the Chinese girls if you consider a long haul. It's tough, if not impossible to have white girls spending a long haul with Asian guy.
BTW, you think only the mainland Chinese SPs "invest" relationship to any "hobbyists" having US visa/ Canadian permanent resident status/citizenship, regardless of whether he is a Chinese or Caucasian. Think again!!
If any of you guys know the cases for some Russian women or Eastern European women whose use methods such as bogus marriage to get some kind of legit identities here in North America, some mainland Chinese women use exactly the same tactics, regardless of whether she is a SP or not.
The only difference is the mainstream society knows more on EE/Russian case than the Chinese ones, plus those Chinese women usually target on the overseas Chinese themselves.
Dudelove,
There's some confusion in some of your posts that I would just like to point out and address.
1. You mentionned that Chinese Sps aren't attractive. I really can't resist commenting on this. Having been to most of asia, I PERSONALLY find chinese sps (esp ones in the Shenzhen area, to be far prettier than most of their counterparts in other countries). Especially compared to places like philippines which you've listed as a country that you recommend as an hobbyist. I won't touch most Filipino sps that i've met with a 10 foot pole. Even though I can attribute our differences in perception to "different strokes for different folks", I would think that most hobbyiests on this site would agree with me in saying that chinese SPs are pretty good looking - as indicated by the healthy business that TOG does and its LARGE and vocal following.
2. You mentionned that the personality of these Sps as annoying: The last I checked, I'm not there to make friends with them... so character flaws of those sps that you've met really doesn't interest me much. They might be arrogant, money-grabbing, hypocritical, selfish, vain whores... But I'll happily enjoy their company as long as they provide the service I'm looking for with a smile .
3. I mentionned that asian girls might want to "invest" in relationship with a caucasian in the context of getting free sex from a regular girl - not a SP. I'm very aware of the number of Con artists and pathological liars out there who would do anything to come to Canada/US. Again, as a hobbyist, that's one of the dangers travelling to any asian country (not just China)... and it's highly un-recommended that you leave for Asia single and come back hitched... Any intelligent Hobbyist should be able to avoid this trap.
4. You mentionned getting laid for $150-200 as total ripoff. And you mentionned that you preferred reds + blondes... Well... I prefer asians... so i'll just chalk that up to the whole different strokes thing.
5. You mentionned Japan and Thailand as preferable destinations for hobbying. Thailand has both higher raw numbers and higher % of aids victims compared to china. In addition, most of the disease there IS transferred via prostitution - so the danger for hobbyist is a hundredfold. It's been estimated that the AIDS rate among thai Sps are almost 30-40%. It's funny that you would mention that China has an acute AIDS problem and overlook Thailand's.
Whereas, in Japan, a comparable sp experience with a pretty girl would certainly cost more than 150USD - and in all likelihood... your "japanese school girl" sp turn out to be a Chinese VISA student.... One of the SP I saw in Tokyo ended up speaking mandarin to me. Sort of defeats the whole purpose and kills the fantasy doesn't it?
There's some confusion in some of your posts that I would just like to point out and address.
1. You mentionned that Chinese Sps aren't attractive. I really can't resist commenting on this. Having been to most of asia, I PERSONALLY find chinese sps (esp ones in the Shenzhen area, to be far prettier than most of their counterparts in other countries). Especially compared to places like philippines which you've listed as a country that you recommend as an hobbyist. I won't touch most Filipino sps that i've met with a 10 foot pole. Even though I can attribute our differences in perception to "different strokes for different folks", I would think that most hobbyiests on this site would agree with me in saying that chinese SPs are pretty good looking - as indicated by the healthy business that TOG does and its LARGE and vocal following.
2. You mentionned that the personality of these Sps as annoying: The last I checked, I'm not there to make friends with them... so character flaws of those sps that you've met really doesn't interest me much. They might be arrogant, money-grabbing, hypocritical, selfish, vain whores... But I'll happily enjoy their company as long as they provide the service I'm looking for with a smile .
3. I mentionned that asian girls might want to "invest" in relationship with a caucasian in the context of getting free sex from a regular girl - not a SP. I'm very aware of the number of Con artists and pathological liars out there who would do anything to come to Canada/US. Again, as a hobbyist, that's one of the dangers travelling to any asian country (not just China)... and it's highly un-recommended that you leave for Asia single and come back hitched... Any intelligent Hobbyist should be able to avoid this trap.
4. You mentionned getting laid for $150-200 as total ripoff. And you mentionned that you preferred reds + blondes... Well... I prefer asians... so i'll just chalk that up to the whole different strokes thing.
5. You mentionned Japan and Thailand as preferable destinations for hobbying. Thailand has both higher raw numbers and higher % of aids victims compared to china. In addition, most of the disease there IS transferred via prostitution - so the danger for hobbyist is a hundredfold. It's been estimated that the AIDS rate among thai Sps are almost 30-40%. It's funny that you would mention that China has an acute AIDS problem and overlook Thailand's.
Whereas, in Japan, a comparable sp experience with a pretty girl would certainly cost more than 150USD - and in all likelihood... your "japanese school girl" sp turn out to be a Chinese VISA student.... One of the SP I saw in Tokyo ended up speaking mandarin to me. Sort of defeats the whole purpose and kills the fantasy doesn't it?
