I was under the impression that it is illegal to pay for private health care in Canada but legal to get private health care if you go offshore. I saw a piece on CTV NEWS to-night that this is not always the case. Apparently, you can seek private health in Canada for treatment that is not covered by OHIP.
Private Health Care in Canada
- Thread starter Rockslinger
- Start date
Well yeah!!! What do you classify Chiropractic, Acupuncture and Physiotherapy as, witchcraft? If you want to be treated by any of those methods you have to pay for it. How can you say those are anything other than "private" healthcare! Sorry to break it to you, there's already is a two-tiered healthcare system in Ontario. What else would you call it when the government chooses what type of services are covered under the government plan?
From Wiki...
Two-tier health care is a term used by some to describe a situation that arises when there is a basic health care system financed by government providing medically necessary but perhaps quite basic health care services, and a secondary tier of care for those with access to more funds who can purchase additional health care not covered by the publicly financed system or which permits better quality or faster access.
From Wiki...
Two-tier health care is a term used by some to describe a situation that arises when there is a basic health care system financed by government providing medically necessary but perhaps quite basic health care services, and a secondary tier of care for those with access to more funds who can purchase additional health care not covered by the publicly financed system or which permits better quality or faster access.
No, I think it is 4tees that missed the point. Gameboy is correct. We already have 2 tier private health care in Canada. The fact that what is available privately and at extra cost is not "legitimate" health care in your eyes because it isn't covered by OHIP does not mean that we have universal health care coverage that is accessible by all.
To chiropractic, acupuncture and physiotherapy, you can add eye exams, massage therapy, legally prescribed drug therapy,and naturopathic medicine that are all important aspects of health care that rich people have access to while poor people are denied the benefit of these. I am sure there are other services as well.
You can seek—and receive if you find it—any health or medical care you want. The laws are about what the providers may do, or must not do if they receive OHIP money. Some years ago, f'rinstance the TO shrinks all decided they'd do better quitting OHIP and billing direct. OHIP saw the light and raised the payout.
As far as I know there is still no law the forbids any one doctor to practise medicine on their own entirely outside OHIP, but you and she may have to get creative about payment if she's taking OHIP money. And these days it's the supporting infrastructure and team you're after; good luck finding them. I belive the law does require that institutional medical practices be under OHIP.
As far as I know there is still no law the forbids any one doctor to practise medicine on their own entirely outside OHIP, but you and she may have to get creative about payment if she's taking OHIP money. And these days it's the supporting infrastructure and team you're after; good luck finding them. I belive the law does require that institutional medical practices be under OHIP.
As most of the canadian population lives close to the US, it really does not matter that OHIP forbids private billings. It just helps send money and doctors to the US, so it is a stupid policy.
I myself had another example of long wait times last week. I am going away for a long trip soon, and wanted a specialist to check my vocal cords (I had a cancer removed 5 years ago). The best the system here could do was a month out, so I arranged an appointment with a specialist in Buffalo the next day and went there.
Cost: $200. Peace of mind: Priceless.
I am at the point now where I am considering dropping OHIP altogether and getting a GP in Buffalo.
I myself had another example of long wait times last week. I am going away for a long trip soon, and wanted a specialist to check my vocal cords (I had a cancer removed 5 years ago). The best the system here could do was a month out, so I arranged an appointment with a specialist in Buffalo the next day and went there.
Cost: $200. Peace of mind: Priceless.
I am at the point now where I am considering dropping OHIP altogether and getting a GP in Buffalo.
The CTV NEWS story concerned a gentleman who suffered a relapse of a cancer. OHIP said that the drug (forgot the name) is not covered in the case of a relapse. Therefore, this gentleman is going to a private clinic in Canada to get this drug and pay the cost out of his own pocket. The annual cost is around $40,000. Fortunately, this gentleman has the financial means to pay for the drug personally.
I had to wait 6 months to have a biopsy performed at the hospital. When the results came back it turned out they didn't have a good enough tissue sample to do the procedure. So i had to have a 2nd biopsy and waited another 6 months. Just had the 2nd one done last week. So i've actually waited a year now to find out if i have cancer. Bloody ridiculous!
Unfortunately i don't have the funds to just zip to the US. If i did i would've done it already. There was nothing i could do to speed up the biopsy and not for lack of trying either. The fact is that if you have the money and are willing to pay, the best health care in the world is right in the good old US of A!
No i don't have the money. I'd have to go into debt to do that and since i don't work, it would probably take me the rest of my life to pay it off, if ever. I can't work cuz I'm on full disability, although I did work my whole adult life. It's just the last few years that i have all these health issues. You try making ends meet on $1100 per month.
If you can't afford it, there's OHIP. If you can afford it, you go to Europe. Or the US. Or India. But I guess you can't afford it.
There are some who can't afford it, and think that means it's up to us make things easy for them at home here. Tell ya what, we could organize it like this: You don't like the OHIP deal, get the price of the deal you do like. All in. We—the great Canadian People who bought you an entire healthcare system that never even sends you a bill—will happily provide that service here for the same money. Or send you there (just in case you might be tempted to lowball yr. quote). Comments?
My friends' daughter's bill in the US for emergency blood alone was over $98,000. Fortunately their state governor hadn't yet gotten to their health insurance, but he's promised to. A mix of public and private care likely has much to offer, but don't try to kid us about it being simple. Simple it already is: Free for all. You can afford better; you can buy it. Just not here. When your plan shows how we can all still have coverage without all the docs chasing profiteering rates of the We Can Afford It (as long as we save the airfare) Clinics, then it'll likely be worth a close look.
Meantime, if you want better healthcare here, stop voting for pols who's only platform is cutting taxes, so you'll be guaranteed the cheapest of everything. If there's anything at all when they're finished.
I do not understand your dogmatism with regard to private health care. All other countries than Canada with a universal health care system to my knowledge allows private health providers to operate alongside the universal health care system. In some european countries (I will mention as an example Denmark) there is a guarantee, that if the universal system cannot provide necessary service within a reasonable time frame (one month) then the universal system will pay for service at a private health care facility.
Canada, of course, in reality has a two tier health care system, only the other tier is in the US. By this silly policy, Canada accomplishes to send sick people, with their money, and in addition nurses and doctors to the US.
Personally, I have within the last five years had 3 medical events, where I had to go to the US for timely medical treatment. I believe that is partly caused by the fact that I live outside of Toronto. But anyway, I am resigned to the fact that I have to go to the US and pay for medical treatment. I am just not willing to wait 6 month for treatment for a potentially life threatening disease.
As I said above, outline a plan for the public-private mix. I'm sure that we can do what other countries have. I'm also sure that only we and Mexico share the benefits and dangers of having the world's richest and most disfunctional healthcare available next door as a model, a horror show and a last resort. Makes the debate very skewed.
It isn't straightforward, though the simple minds always want it to be. I want what I want when I want it at what I want to pay is not a plan.
It isn't straightforward, though the simple minds always want it to be. I want what I want when I want it at what I want to pay is not a plan.
Actually, it is straightforward. Simply allow private health care providers to operate alongside the universal health care system. Nothing can be simpler.
Private health care isn't illegal. What it is, or can be, is a violation of the Canada Health Act. The Canada Health Act is not a law in the sense that it makes things illegal. It is a funding agreement between the provinces and Ottawa. Each province and Ottawa voluntarily agree to it, and can drop out at any time. Basically, it says that Ottawa will provide transfer payments to each province if that province abides by the principles of the Act. One of those principles is not allowing private billing for insured services. Insured services are defined as medically required hospital and physician services. So, things like physiotherapy, optometry, etc. are NOT covered by the Act, though some provinces choose to cover all or part of those services as an extra benefit to citizens,, or at least certain citizens such as seniors and children. Anyway, if a province allows private payment for insured services, it can be deemed to be in violation of the Act. The penalty for violation, as written in the Act, is that Ottawa can withhold transfer payments to the offending provinces, at a maximum of $1 for every $1 in private billing allowed.
Ottawa chooses to turn a blind eye to much private health care, even if it a clear violation of the Act. An excellent example is the Cambie Clinic in Vancouver, that performs medically necessary services and charges the patient directly. As far as I know, this has never been declared a violation, with penalties imposed.
I suspect the main reason that Ottawa ignores such violations is two-fold: first, the Canada Health Act was predicated on the assumption that Ottawa would pay 50% of the costs of the health system, with the provinces picking up the other 50%. However, under the Chretien administration, the federal portion dwindled to approx. 14%, with the provinces picking up the rest. This is probably the biggest single reason why all provinces are struggling to fund health care. This diminished federal portion also diminishes the feds' moral high ground when it comes to lecturing the provinces on health policy (though it never stopped Jean Chretien from proclaiming his government the savior of health care). The other possible reason for Ottawa's blind eye on violations is likely ideological; many in the Harper government favor the private health care option so aren't about to start penalizing provinces that allow it.
Ottawa chooses to turn a blind eye to much private health care, even if it a clear violation of the Act. An excellent example is the Cambie Clinic in Vancouver, that performs medically necessary services and charges the patient directly. As far as I know, this has never been declared a violation, with penalties imposed.
I suspect the main reason that Ottawa ignores such violations is two-fold: first, the Canada Health Act was predicated on the assumption that Ottawa would pay 50% of the costs of the health system, with the provinces picking up the other 50%. However, under the Chretien administration, the federal portion dwindled to approx. 14%, with the provinces picking up the rest. This is probably the biggest single reason why all provinces are struggling to fund health care. This diminished federal portion also diminishes the feds' moral high ground when it comes to lecturing the provinces on health policy (though it never stopped Jean Chretien from proclaiming his government the savior of health care). The other possible reason for Ottawa's blind eye on violations is likely ideological; many in the Harper government favor the private health care option so aren't about to start penalizing provinces that allow it.
OHIP has never covered any prescription medication outside of hospitals. If you're poor you can try to get on the Trillium Plan, if you're over 65 you qualify for the Ontario Drug Benefit program.Rockslinger said:
It has more to do with the fact that we would wind-up with a system where the "disadvantaged" would be the only ones left relying on OHIP. Everyone else's employer would provide some form of coverage. It could become a little too tempting for certain politicians to slash health benefits for the poor just like they can with welfare benefits with little in the way of repercussions. In the U.S if you're without insurance and don't qualify for Medicaid because you're above the income threshold, you can either hope to live until you're 65 and get some coverage through Medicare, you can go bankrupt, or you can die.rubmeister100 said:
I lived in the US - for a rich country (~15x our GDP) it is unbelievable how they treat their own citizen's health issues. Any improvement in their health plan has rich (fully insured) politicians claiming socialism/ communism. If you are working - you answer to HMO's who can be nightmare to deal with particularly on expensive procedures. The elderly form groups to bus to either Canada or Mexico for their drugs because the drug lobby has the politicians in their pocket.
We have drawbacks here but I wouldn't trade it for the US Health plan.
Everytime i've been in the hospital i always see the nurses congregating around the desk talking, laughing and telling jokes. That's how our health care money is being squanderd and wasted.
One time on a Friday night in ER i asked how long i'd have to wait for a doc, and they told me there was only one doctor in ER that night. Are they fucking crazy? One doctor in ER for a regional hospital?
One time on a Friday night in ER i asked how long i'd have to wait for a doc, and they told me there was only one doctor in ER that night. Are they fucking crazy? One doctor in ER for a regional hospital?
