On the news tonight I heard that some Toronto police officers were hurt when swarmed as they were trying to bust a drug unit in a downtown highrise. WTF is with people?!?!? The police come in trying to clean up a problem - one that no doubt has been complained about, and this is the thanks they get? Where are the good samaritans (sp?). Where is the community support? The police can't do their job without some cooperation. If I saw a cop getting swarmed I would jump in and crack the fuc*er right on the head... then I would swear out a statement and gladly testify in court against them. We (society) are not going to get rid of the scum and thugs out there unless we are ALL willing to do our part. If you see a crime - REPORT it, and be willing to testify. Our cops are tops, but they need support. Remember that the next time YOU need one.
Police swarming in Toronto
- Thread starter Quest4Less
- Start date
It's not that simple.
Being a good samaritan in some people's eyes doesn't necessarily make the world a better place.
For example, a good percentage of the globe's population lives in poverty even through 6 billion people all have the equivalent of a penny to spare...
Being a good samaritan in some people's eyes doesn't necessarily make the world a better place.
For example, a good percentage of the globe's population lives in poverty even through 6 billion people all have the equivalent of a penny to spare...
Don't forget its easy to say what you would do in a situation ans what would really happen. Something like that happens real fast and it takes more balls than most people have to jump in. Also, we don't know what the situation was, what if the guys swarming had weapons, would you be so gung ho?
Being a police officer is a very dangerous job but they are willing to take that risk. I'm grateful that they do what they do and I would try and help but I gotta admit I'm not a big guy at all, nor am I much of an athlete so in a fight I'm pretty useless. the best thing I could do is call for help, take down licence plates, take pictures or do what I could to help ID the bastards.
Also, if it was a drug bust and you lived in the building maybe you know that the guys belong to a gang or mob and you're not exactly excited about find a horses head in your bed.
Plus if a bust is going down in a building the police may have tried to clear out innocent people before they come storming in. A gunfight in an apartment building could turn nasty and it would look awful is a bunch of bystanders got hurt. So maybe no one was around to help in the first place.
But I'm really not surprised. Heroic acts are rare and that's why people make a big deal when they happen.
I hope it doesn't sound callous but when a firefighter, police officer or soldier dies in the line if duty its sad, its a shame, and I would never wish that upon someone but its part of their job and they took it knowing that there was an element of danger and risk in their line of work.
Now that I think about it some more. One should hope that the police are able to handle their problems, where was their back up? If back up wasn't available then perhaps we need to think about paying for more cops so that doesn't happen.
Being a police officer is a very dangerous job but they are willing to take that risk. I'm grateful that they do what they do and I would try and help but I gotta admit I'm not a big guy at all, nor am I much of an athlete so in a fight I'm pretty useless. the best thing I could do is call for help, take down licence plates, take pictures or do what I could to help ID the bastards.
Also, if it was a drug bust and you lived in the building maybe you know that the guys belong to a gang or mob and you're not exactly excited about find a horses head in your bed.
Plus if a bust is going down in a building the police may have tried to clear out innocent people before they come storming in. A gunfight in an apartment building could turn nasty and it would look awful is a bunch of bystanders got hurt. So maybe no one was around to help in the first place.
But I'm really not surprised. Heroic acts are rare and that's why people make a big deal when they happen.
I hope it doesn't sound callous but when a firefighter, police officer or soldier dies in the line if duty its sad, its a shame, and I would never wish that upon someone but its part of their job and they took it knowing that there was an element of danger and risk in their line of work.
Now that I think about it some more. One should hope that the police are able to handle their problems, where was their back up? If back up wasn't available then perhaps we need to think about paying for more cops so that doesn't happen.
frankcastle said:
I really Honestly couldnt agree with you more. We need more cops on the road and it doesnt matter if they are all White, Black, Asian, East Asian, Brown, Yellow, Purple or Green.
As far as I know this was a case where they (Police) were caught unprepared. Lack of proper intelligence (not the officers) on this location. They were responding to a dispute and disturbance call and it turn out that it was a crack house. From what I gather they did take appropriate back-up for the type of call they were going to, or what they thought they were going to. They were swarmed and most (ALL) of the occupants escaped. The people in the building had complained about this particular appartment before but nothing had been done about it. Probably lack of real evidence to investigate.
Now one report that I've heard had over twelve young males in the appartment plus a number of females. How are 4 officers going to do much if they that outnumbered. There just lucky that these guys didn't use guns and blast their way out.
Kurt
Now one report that I've heard had over twelve young males in the appartment plus a number of females. How are 4 officers going to do much if they that outnumbered. There just lucky that these guys didn't use guns and blast their way out.
Kurt
F
feminista
In some communities, they just don't feel the love for the Toronto Police. Mostly, our police force does a great job, but the force also has its share of yahoos. You make a lot of enemies when you shoot someone in the back. Unfortunately, when the police investigate themselves, a cover up is inevitable, so the situation does not improve, and the whole police force looks bad. I don't think it is the place of citizens to be assisting police in a drug bust anyway.Quest4Less said:
April 28, 2005 - TORONTO, ON
Rally to mark anniversary of the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Jeffrey Reodica by Toronto Police
Concerned community members from across the GTA are holding a peace march and rally in support of the "Justice for
Jeffrey" Campaign on Saturday, May 21, 2005 beginning at 2:00pm at Nathan Philips Square. On the afternoon of Friday, May 21, 2004, Jeffrey was shot 3 times in the back by a plain-clothes police officer. He died from
his injuries 3 days later in the hospital.
The grade 11 Jean Vanier Catholic Secondary student would have celebrated his 18th birthday and his high school graduation
this summer. He was loved by all of his schoolmates, family, friends and co-workers and was known as a caring, good-
natured person with a great sense of humour.
A trust fund in memory of Jeffrey has been setup by the family at all TD Canada Trust and HSBC bank locations. The trust fund
account names for both are as follows: JEFFREY REODICA MEMORIAL TRUST.
For more information and for upcoming events please visit Jeffrey's Memorial Website at www.reodica.com/jeff
JOEL REODICA
Justice for Jeffrey Coalition416-895-05552way.joel@reodica.com
I wonder, not to be a "know it all" but with incidents like the above, why would the undercover detective be after said "victim" in the first place?
So many times the police get the bum rap when a perp is killed or injured:
For eg:
A machete wielding man on a bus was told 4 times to drop the weapon, he didn't and got shot. Boo Hoo Hoo, he was mentally handicapped. TFB good thing no innocent person was injured.
A gun wielding man takes GF prisoner at gun point in front of Union Station, get's nailed in the head by a sniper and everyone complains "didn't they try to negotiate more...". Ok, so they negotiate, he goes to a psych hospital for eval, get's out in 6 months and kills her this time.. Oh boo hoo hooo. The dick woudn't have gotten shot if he didn't pull a gun....END OF STORY
there are many more examples but I can't remember them right now. In EVERY case I have read where the police were being investigated for a so called wrongful use of force, the PERP who was injured was either a: doing something wrong, b: wielding a weapon c: NOT doing what the officers told him to do or d: was about to be arrested. IMHO if a man, holding a gun, tells me to lie on the ground so he can cuff me, I WILL LIE ON THE MOTHEREFFIN GROUND I WILL not pull a gun on him, I WILL not try and run from him (cuz I am fast but NO way can I run faster n 650 feet per second).
In my opinion if a cop tells you to stop you stop. If you don't stop he can use whatever force is necessary to stop you. If you're smart, you'll stop when he threatens to shoot you. If you're not smart enough, you DESERVE to be shot......
In the swarming above? The cops should have opened fire and taken out a few....hell, we have more than enuff crackheads around, we can spare a few....
So many times the police get the bum rap when a perp is killed or injured:
For eg:
A machete wielding man on a bus was told 4 times to drop the weapon, he didn't and got shot. Boo Hoo Hoo, he was mentally handicapped. TFB good thing no innocent person was injured.
A gun wielding man takes GF prisoner at gun point in front of Union Station, get's nailed in the head by a sniper and everyone complains "didn't they try to negotiate more...". Ok, so they negotiate, he goes to a psych hospital for eval, get's out in 6 months and kills her this time.. Oh boo hoo hooo. The dick woudn't have gotten shot if he didn't pull a gun....END OF STORY
there are many more examples but I can't remember them right now. In EVERY case I have read where the police were being investigated for a so called wrongful use of force, the PERP who was injured was either a: doing something wrong, b: wielding a weapon c: NOT doing what the officers told him to do or d: was about to be arrested. IMHO if a man, holding a gun, tells me to lie on the ground so he can cuff me, I WILL LIE ON THE MOTHEREFFIN GROUND I WILL not pull a gun on him, I WILL not try and run from him (cuz I am fast but NO way can I run faster n 650 feet per second).
In my opinion if a cop tells you to stop you stop. If you don't stop he can use whatever force is necessary to stop you. If you're smart, you'll stop when he threatens to shoot you. If you're not smart enough, you DESERVE to be shot......
In the swarming above? The cops should have opened fire and taken out a few....hell, we have more than enuff crackheads around, we can spare a few....
Details...
I'm not familiar with the details of the guy getting shot in the back, however I'd be willing to bet he was doing something he shouldn't have been, or he refused police orders.
I agree with the previous poster - if the cops say STOP... then you STOP. If you run or try anything then whatever happens is YOUR fault.
I'm not familiar with the details of the guy getting shot in the back, however I'd be willing to bet he was doing something he shouldn't have been, or he refused police orders.
I agree with the previous poster - if the cops say STOP... then you STOP. If you run or try anything then whatever happens is YOUR fault.
Oh well shit, if he didn't do what the cops say, then yes, they are justified in executing him. Sure, kill the fucker. He sounds like a real bad seed.Quest4Less said:
[/off sarcasm] Get real guys. Do you really want to live in a police state?
From the web page...
TORONTO, Canada--Jeffrey was shot three times by an undercover police agent who reportedly responded to a 911 call about a group of about 50 kids supposedly in "attack mode." One of the bullets entered the teenager through the back, fatally fragmenting on its way up to his brainstem.
Stories about what led to the senseless killing were conflicting. The police released their version to the mainstream media but community and neighborhood papers that did their own interviews of witnesses carried stories saying that Jeffrey was not armed and that there were less than 50 kids involved in the brawl that was started by a bullying incident in a basketball court two nights before. The Filipino youth claimed that "some white kids" stole their basketball and beat up one of them.
For his 17th birthday this year, Jeffrey's immediate family plus his cousins celebrated at the Pickel Barrel restaurant in Yorkdale. Although Flora's birthday fell on the following day, this party was exclusively for Jeffrey. He was the special person that day. At that time, he was excited about a planned school trip to Europe and told everyone about it. He told them that he was saving the money he earned from his part time job for the trip. The day before he died, he put the Parents Consent Form on the kitchen table for his mother to sign but Flora never got to doing it.
He had other plans for the future and was mulling about whether to join the military or go into graphic design. He had to make the choice the following year when he would have been in grade 12. In the meantime, Jeffrey lived his life as a teenager normally would -- going to school (at Jean Vanier), doing his school work (he earned good grades), playing sports (basketball was his favorite), partying (he was a party animal) and just hanging out with friends (lots of them). But Jeffrey did something out of the ordinary too -- he acted as surrogate father to his four-year-old nephew Ty, the son of his sister Robyn.
It was difficult for his friends to think of him today as dead. The "happiest guy in the world" as his friends described him, suddenly and forever silenced? Many wept quietly. Some wailed. Others were still in denial. They clung to each other for support. They expressed their anger. They prayed. They sang.
They came from everywhere -- his high school, Jean Vanier; his grade school, St. Rose of Lima; his workplace, Krispy Kreme; his neighborhood, in Scarborough. There were also visitors from other high schools and as far as Mississauga and Markham -- young people he had met through Youth for Christ of which he was a member, Fil-Act for which he played basketball and Mark de Leon's martial arts class. Friends of his family also came, as well as members of the community they didn't personally know but who condoled with them.
At the Ogden Funeral Home the day before, administration was careful not to call on the police to direct the heavy traffic to the parking lot. Resentment by the youth against the police was understandable and raw emotions still had to be processed. The viewing room quickly filled after it opened at 4 p.m. as classes for the day ended. The crowd spilled into the hall, the downstairs level and even the courtyard. Mourners lined up to view the body and afterwards lingered to exchange information as to what happened. They brought flowers, sympathy cards, mass cards, letters, photos, posters and whatever could express their grief. One letter from his co-workers had a drawing of a donut that Jeffrey supposedly invented: apple filling, chocolate glaze, apple cinnamon topping and multi-colored sprinkles. It may not have been original but it surely reflected Jeffrey's vibrant and fun personality.
In between the prayer service and mass, photos of Jeffrey were projected on screen. Outtakes from Jeffrey's communications technology project were also shown, with Jeffrey holding a mic and clowning before the camera. He looked like he had a future in broadcasting or in stand-up comedy. Even in death, he made his classmates laugh. Fondly, they recalled his comic personality. Which was the real Jeffrey, the one onscreen or the one lying in the coffin? It is the one you choose to remember.
ok so he was involved in a gang fight involving LESS than 50 kids.....wtf was he doing there to begin with?
Don't paint him as a prince, if he was a prince he wouldn't have been there.
Thousands of kids go to school, get an education, MAYBE get into an altercation with ONE other student, then graduate.
If you want to get into stuff like that, then be prepared to pay the price.
SOrry, but it doesn't sound like he was Mr Innocent. If he was there, he was doing something wrong. If he had stayed home and watched TV or done some other princely thing, he wouldn't be dead would he?
I will admit that people shouldn't die if they get into a gang fight, but hey, if you want to fight, be prepared to pay the price.....
I stand by the rule: if you don't break the law, you have nothing to fear from the police...EOS
Don't paint him as a prince, if he was a prince he wouldn't have been there.
Thousands of kids go to school, get an education, MAYBE get into an altercation with ONE other student, then graduate.
If you want to get into stuff like that, then be prepared to pay the price.
SOrry, but it doesn't sound like he was Mr Innocent. If he was there, he was doing something wrong. If he had stayed home and watched TV or done some other princely thing, he wouldn't be dead would he?
I will admit that people shouldn't die if they get into a gang fight, but hey, if you want to fight, be prepared to pay the price.....
I stand by the rule: if you don't break the law, you have nothing to fear from the police...EOS
One less schmuck in the world. I love the way the 'community' paints this loser as a prince. Good riddance.
Well, I don't think you guys are being very rational or consistent with your opinions. tboy, first you say he doesn't deserve to die, then you say he must be prepared to pay the price for being there. You can't have it both ways. Either there is justice in this case, or there isn't. And you are assuming he was there to fight. I think we are missing some of the facts. There is nothing to suggest he was there to fight. We have a justice system to determine guilt or innocent, not execution squads.
Putri, where is he painted as a prince? I see grieving people remembering him fondly. Get real. I think you're just taking a really extreme position and pretending to be an ass clown because you like to try to bait other people. Its a shame that you can't take a police execution seriously.
Hey, how do you guys feel about police raids on bawdy houses. I guess they should bust in with guns ablazing. If the clients had just gone home and watched tv instead of deliberately breaking the law...I will admit people shouldn't die for going to a bawdy house, but hey if you go, be prepared to pay the price.
Putri, where is he painted as a prince? I see grieving people remembering him fondly. Get real. I think you're just taking a really extreme position and pretending to be an ass clown because you like to try to bait other people. Its a shame that you can't take a police execution seriously.
Gee, maybe he was there being a good samaritan and trying assist the police. That is as likely as any other theory at this point.Quest4Less said:
Hey, how do you guys feel about police raids on bawdy houses. I guess they should bust in with guns ablazing. If the clients had just gone home and watched tv instead of deliberately breaking the law...I will admit people shouldn't die for going to a bawdy house, but hey if you go, be prepared to pay the price.
W
WhOiSyOdAdDy?
Police are paid to put their lives on the line everyday... I am notQuest4Less said:
Why should I risk my privacy and my safety?
..and yes I could sleep at night if an officer was killed because I did not get involved
Maybe next time, the police will do a little more surveillance and be better prepared when they do a raid of this nature. They are lucky that due to their negligence, it did not turn into an event like was seen with the rcmp in Alberta a couple months back.
Questor: You did what a lot of ppl do on this site: take one segment of a statement and use it out of context. To be precise, what I said was "I will admit that people shouldn't die if they get into a gang fight, but hey, if you want to fight, be prepared to pay the price....."
The operative word there is "shouldn't". THis is the same way that our soilders shouldn't die to defend us. Police and firemen shouldn't die in fires or trying to save lives. Unfortunately they do, just as ppl who get into gang fights end up hurt or dead.
The article about said "prince" is indicative how ppl react when someone gets killed. Oh he was SO loved, he was SO pure, SO lovely, a beautiful human being...ummm NO. If he was all that he wouldn't have been shot EOS, no ifs, ands, or buts. If you want to say something say: While he had a great family life, he did have his troubles...BE HONEST.
The operative word there is "shouldn't". THis is the same way that our soilders shouldn't die to defend us. Police and firemen shouldn't die in fires or trying to save lives. Unfortunately they do, just as ppl who get into gang fights end up hurt or dead.
The article about said "prince" is indicative how ppl react when someone gets killed. Oh he was SO loved, he was SO pure, SO lovely, a beautiful human being...ummm NO. If he was all that he wouldn't have been shot EOS, no ifs, ands, or buts. If you want to say something say: While he had a great family life, he did have his troubles...BE HONEST.
Unfortunately BB we have invented many methods and means to prevent the Darwin Law from ever being fully utilized.....If said idiot stopped and got run over by the truck and survived he'd sue the trucker and company, win 10 million in damages, put thousands out of work, and then be able to reproduce. Thereby reducing the average IQ of the population.......
non-lethal means
For the most part, I think that cops do a great job in protecting our city. Sure there's some bad ones but we can't judge all cops based on the actions of a few. If it's police policy to do something that is deemed wrong, then sure, let's blast all police but I'm thinking the police policy is fine. (Not that I know what police are supposed to do in ALL circumstances. Just going off what I see and read!)
My question is this, why don't the police have a non-lethal means of stopping someone? I know that taser guns (ones that you can shot at someone from a distance) have been proposed but I'm not sure where that all stands. If someone is not threatening someone but still has the potential to be a threat to society, why not blast them with the taser? I've heard that there have been some fatalities because of tasers but has there been serious thought of introducting them to Toronto? If someone has the potential to seriously harm anyone, sure, let's draw the Glocks and take them down.
Not sure how it could've helped the police that were swarmed but with Jeffrey, I read that he potentially was in possession of a weapon. If one cop had a taser he could've taken Jeffrey down and not had to have shot and killed him. Although, that weapon had the "potential" to be a gun and the cop had no way to know if it was or not and the last thing you want to be doing is bringing a taser to a gun-fight. (Sorry, I really like the "Untouchables"!!!)
My statements above are, admittedly, all over the place but I think that there should be some sort of middle-ground between, "Stop" and "Stop or I'll shot".
RS
For the most part, I think that cops do a great job in protecting our city. Sure there's some bad ones but we can't judge all cops based on the actions of a few. If it's police policy to do something that is deemed wrong, then sure, let's blast all police but I'm thinking the police policy is fine. (Not that I know what police are supposed to do in ALL circumstances. Just going off what I see and read!)
My question is this, why don't the police have a non-lethal means of stopping someone? I know that taser guns (ones that you can shot at someone from a distance) have been proposed but I'm not sure where that all stands. If someone is not threatening someone but still has the potential to be a threat to society, why not blast them with the taser? I've heard that there have been some fatalities because of tasers but has there been serious thought of introducting them to Toronto? If someone has the potential to seriously harm anyone, sure, let's draw the Glocks and take them down.
Not sure how it could've helped the police that were swarmed but with Jeffrey, I read that he potentially was in possession of a weapon. If one cop had a taser he could've taken Jeffrey down and not had to have shot and killed him. Although, that weapon had the "potential" to be a gun and the cop had no way to know if it was or not and the last thing you want to be doing is bringing a taser to a gun-fight. (Sorry, I really like the "Untouchables"!!!)
My statements above are, admittedly, all over the place but I think that there should be some sort of middle-ground between, "Stop" and "Stop or I'll shot".
RS
So you could sleep at night just fine if a Police Officer died because you did not get involved well just remember that there are civillians out there just not Cops that would lay their life on the line for a stranger like you it is called being a productive member of Society. And i will answer the question even if no one asks. Yes i would help save/try and save a life even if there was a chance that i would die and if i did die then at least i helped or tried to. and this situation is not like the RCMP in Alberta. the police had no idea that many people were going to swarm them. If i was there i would have helped the police.WhOiSyOdAdDy? said:
