People Who Read and People Who Don't

vidi vici veni

Pedantic Lurker
Aug 17, 2001
287
0
0
Across the Rubicon
Here's an article from today's LA Times. I thought it both interesting and sad. Thought I'd share.

vvv

July 9, 2004

How Can We Teach Them Shakespeare When They've Never Read Chaucer?

By Harold Bloom

Thursday's announcement by the National Endowment for the Arts that reading is down — that fewer than half of all Americans over the age of 18 now read novels, plays, short stories or poetry, and that only 56.9% have read any book at all in the last year — is, of course, to be abhorred. But to call it news, I think, is wrong.

This country, after all, has been split into two cultures for many years. If you go back through the history of literacy in the United States in the 19th and 20th centuries, you'll see that we've always been divisible into readers and nonreaders.

Who are the readers and who are the nonreaders? It's not as simple as you might think. It's not a distinction that goes by social class, and it doesn't go by income group. It isn't a male thing or a female thing or a matter of sexual orientation or so-called white or so-called black. It's a broad generic distinction between the people who have a fundamental passion for books and those who don't. We haven't yet found an adequate way to explain it and, frankly, I'm not sure that even education can affect it.

I know the children of many faculty members at Yale, for instance, who have grown up in houses just like my own, which has about 35,000 books in it, and still they have never become readers. But I also have many students who grew up poor with few books in the house but who have developed a voracious hunger for them.

If there is a drop-off in reading today, it's partly because it's so much harder to become a reader than it used to be. In my generation (I'm going to celebrate my 74th birthday soon), we had radio. We had movies. But there was no television. There were no computers. So as a child, I read all the time. I read in bed and out of bed. I read whenever I could sneak off, whenever I could get to a corner by myself.

Today, according to the NEA, the average American child lives in a home with 2.9 television sets, 1.8 VCRs, 3.1 radios, 2.1 CD players, 1.4 video-game players and one computer. It's no wonder that the heads of so many Americans are stuffed with pointless information. It's no wonder that the rate of reading is steadily dropping.

Today, according to the study, only one-third of American males read "literature" (which they have defined so broadly that it includes writers like Stephen King and Danielle Steele).

Although there have always been readers and nonreaders, it is certainly true that today's students arrive at college less prepared for the study of literature than comparable students 30 years ago or 50 years ago.

I teach a course on how to read a poem. And I teach Shakespeare. Fall term: comedies, histories and poetry. Spring term: romances and tragedies.

I've learned in the last 15 years not to assume anything. Unless students are religious, I can't take the Bible for granted. I can't say "this has some relation to the Book of Job" because they might not know what that is.

I can't assume they've read Chaucer, either. And it's very hard to get started on Shakespeare if you haven't read Chaucer.

It used to be that you could be pretty sure that either on their own or in a good secondary school they would have read "The Iliad" or "The Odyssey." Not anymore. Now you have to send them to read it, along with "The Canterbury Tales" and the Book of Job.

They'll go, of course, and they'll read it. And they'll grasp it immediately. They're just as bright as always. But shouldn't they know it already?

It's going to be very difficult to change this; perhaps it will never be changed. But I do wish we could keep computers out of their secondary and primary education, and out of their libraries. It would be so much better for them and for all of us.
 
Jan 24, 2004
1,279
0
0
The Vegetative State
Good old cranky Harold Bloom. Most of his populist criticism - The Western Canon, Shakespeare The Invention of the Human - is puffed-up, outraged and over-blown crap, but his heart is in the right place. Call me an elitist, but it saddens me to think how many people go to their graves without having laughed themselves stupid at the Miller's Tale or without realising how outrageously good Hamlet really is.
 

Bubbie

New member
Jul 1, 2004
61
0
0
Toronto
Well, I thought that I was intelligent.. until I read this thread.

Is it wrong that I prefer my books to be modern day political satires, or perhaps some sci-fi or thriller now and then? Can I not be literate and enjoy reading, merely because what I read is not considered up to his standard of what he likes to read.

He makes a good point about literacy, and then segues into a rant about what he considers "literature".

Children nowadays are becoming more and more literate as the computer becomes more and more a part of their lives. I think I support reading in any form (even if it is a website to get their Nintendo codes), rather than having them hate reading because I am cramming something down their throats that they might not enjoy or understand. He doesn't realize that people with his mindset may be the very cause of the decline of literacy over the last few decades.

But I suppose... I must be an illiterate.

Set Flames to [on]

Bubbie
 

healer677

Dos XX at Senor Frogs
Jan 13, 2004
2,154
0
36
Playa Del Carmen Q.R.
Actually Chaucer's Cntebury Tales was required reading for my elective....Coles notes didn't help....I had to actually resort to talking to someone who actually read it.lol
 
Jan 24, 2004
1,279
0
0
The Vegetative State
Lee Cum Gay said:
His last name maybe Bloom, but is he a Allan Bloom wannabe? LMAO ... :D
No, trust me, Allen Bloom is a Harold Bloom wannabe. H. Bloom's contribution to literary criticism has been enormous; A. Bloom is barely acknowledged outside of the William F. Buckley/Paul Johnson circle. The Closing of the American Mind is one of the dumbest books I've ever read - despite the fact that I agreed with its basic premise.
 
Jan 24, 2004
1,279
0
0
The Vegetative State
Bubbie - I don't judge people based on what they read. A person who reads Shakespeare is no intrinsically better than the person who reads nothing but Cosmo.

That said, literature has enriched my life to a degree I can barely estimate. I can't imagine a world without good - and challenging -books. I think you'll find this is the case among most bibliophiles.

Do I think literature should be a part of everybody's life? Well, not really. People should read what they want to. I think the point Bloom is trying to make is that people are rapidly losing the capacity to read literature, which is a shame. Whenever I tell somebody they should really read Moby Dick, they usually come back and tell me they quit after 20 pages. "It's too hard - I like to read to relax." This is fine, but it turns literature into a kind of background noise - the difference between Mozart and muzak. Literature must be dealt with head-on, and this takes the kind of concentration and prior knowledge that Bloom thinks education ought to be providing.

Not being mentally prepared to encounter literature is like not being physically fit enough to climb a mountain - this is fine, but nevertheless you are missing out on something neat.
 
Last edited:
Jan 24, 2004
1,279
0
0
The Vegetative State
a) Harold Bloom and Frye were never close enough to be called friends. Read Bloom's recent extremely snide intoduction to the new edition of The Anatomy of Criticism.

b) While you're at it, read The Anatomy of Criticism. If you don't like it, then literary criticism isn't your thing, because AOC is as good as it gets. Boring? I dunno - I always enjoy watching a great mind at work.

c) Yes, as I said, Allan Bloom has some credit in conservative circles. His total lack of influence in literary circles may be due to the liberal bias in most universities - but I suspect it has more to do with the fact that he hasn't written a real work of criticism since his very old Shakespeare book.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure that computers are responsible fo making kids more literate today compared to a number of generations ago. In fact look at the nonsense that is sent out in email form. People of late seem to have no ability to create an eloquent sentence, or turn of phrase.
If you ever have an opprtunity to review letters sent by your grandparents peers , I suspect you would be amazed at the writing talent "normal" people used to cultivate.
Whatever we read , the result is likley to be a net positve for our lives. But just pick up somthing by Hemmingway or Conrad or Huxley, and you are not only able to learn new ideas, but also luxurate in the the prose.
 

anon1

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2001
10,499
2,435
113
Tranquility Base, La Luna
They said the printing press would be the death of caligraphy.
They said photography would the death of art.
They said records would be the death of music.
They said television would be the death of the press.

Claims of their demise were greatly exagerated.
We will adapt, evolve.
We will be the same, but different.
 
Jan 24, 2004
1,279
0
0
The Vegetative State
anon1 said:
They said the printing press would be the death of caligraphy.
They said photography would the death of art.
They said records would be the death of music.
They said television would be the death of the press.

Claims of their demise were greatly exagerated.
We will adapt, evolve.
We will be the same, but different.
Ah, but video did kill the radio star.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,489
11
38
Bubbie said:
Well, I thought that I was intelligent.. until I read this thread.…edit…Children nowadays are becoming more and more literate as the computer becomes more and more a part of their lives. I think I support reading in any form (even if it is a website to get their Nintendo codes), rather than having them hate reading because I am cramming something down their throats that they might not enjoy or understand. He doesn't realize that people with his mindset may be the very cause of the decline of literacy over the last few decades.…edit…Bubbie
Don't do yourself a disservice. I think Bloom's trying to distinguish "being literate" from just reading. It's not that kids read (or don't) but what.
The Nintendo codes have little or no positive effect on one's growth as a feeling, comprehending human, who thinks and has something to share. All the codes build is your fast twitch response.

Reading and being moved by, say Hamlet not only enriches, but does so manifold when that reading builds on a base of other literary experience, like the Bible or the Classics. Speaking of which; better Classic Comics than no literature at all. And the same is true whether the literature is part of the Western canon or some other.

I think his point is that literature is a whole universe of human experience and understanding that more and more are missing—out of laziness and ignorance, not from thoughtful rejection. To everyone's cost as the shared myths can bring us far closer than a LAN party ever will. You may well be right that force-feeding engenders resistance. The same attitude to forcing healthy eating has produced a generation of obese kids. Sometimes that old phrase: "I know you don't like it, but it's for your own good. You'll thank me one day" isn't just a laugh-line in a smart-ass sitcom.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,489
11
38
hdog said:
If the POTUS doesn't need to read then neither do I.
No one needs to read more than Georgie. The living proof.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
a rather western/euro-centric view of what consitutes literature isn't it. chaucer is so boring it makes people pass out. On every copy of chaucer- there should be a warning- do not operate heavy machinery for four or five days after reading it.

shakespeare is great, in my opinion, but there are many great writers from all around the world.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,489
11
38
Well red (couldn't resist), poor Harold being a westerner, writing in a western language, in a western publication should hardly take fire for 'ignoring' non-western examples. I'm sure he'd agree with both your first and final statements. Equally, I'd bet he'd decry unfamiliarity with the classic literature of any culture. It is, after all, what made that culture.

I think the qualities that make a piece of literature great can still be experienced, at least to some degree, in spite of cross-cultural and translation fogs and mists. Me, when I read Chaucer in high school, I thought it was a hoot. OK, parts of it. But I fast forward through parts of James Bond movies too; not everything is for everybody. But never even knowing what you're missing? At least I'd get the reference if you introduced yourself as "Read, Well Read". That's what he's on about.
 

booboobear

New member
Aug 20, 2003
2,580
0
0
Drunken Master said:
.

Do I think literature should be a part of everybody's life? Well, not really. People should read what they want to. I think the point Bloom is trying to make is that people are rapidly losing the capacity to read literature, which is a shame. Whenever I tell somebody they should really read Moby Dick, they usually come back and tell me they quit after 20 pages. "It's too hard - I like to read to relax

.
Every person has a different hobby or a way of spending their leisure time, just because someone does not read a great deal I would not assume they have lost the capacity.
Some people are obsessed with exercise and spend their time doing that , for some it's listening to music.

Foe some people it's training for a triathlon .

I agree reading can be rewarding but I don't think that the fact that a person doesn't necessarily means they don't have the capacity to enjoy it.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,555
23
38
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
Time to read is one of the great luxuries. What I miss most about working in NYC is the commute - while it was horrible taking public transportation 2 hours a day I loved the chance to read.

OTB
 
Toronto Escorts