Pay scales in todays world...

Quest4Less

Well-known member
May 25, 2002
1,063
27
48
With all the talk in various posts about unions and private sectors and 'bad times' I thought I would ask - what is fair about the pay some people make?

What is a fair wage for unskilled work - be it picking up garbage, or screwing in a nut on an assembly line?

Is it right that people that risk their lives (police, fire, ambulance etc...) are paid so low?

Should teachers - who help shape future lives be paid more?

How is it a good thing that a sports person (pick your sport) - makes MILLIONS for playing a game???

No one ever thinks they make enough - but what is really 'enough'??
 

WhaWhaWha

Banned
Aug 17, 2001
5,989
1
0
Between a rock and a hard place
Average wage in a bonafide job in Canada including MCJobs and commission based telemarketing jobs is $18.50 Canadian. For a family of four, with one wage earner, that's poverty.
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,145
1
0
Detroit, USA
Entertainers-sports people make waaaaaay too much money in my opinion.

People who risk their lives for the good of others are paid too low.

Teachers are paid too low but not all teachers are worthily of higher pay.

Time to end min wages and raise the standard of living for all workers. If people earn more they could buy more goods and pay more in taxes which could go to improving the quality of life for them and others.

But sadly people want a government but don't want to pay for it, then complain how poorly its run. They want cheap goods but then don't want to work for $15 a day (which workers in those other countries we buy those goods from make).
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,085
1
0
WhaWhaWha said:
Average wage in a bonafide job in Canada including MCJobs and commission based telemarketing jobs is $18.50 Canadian. For a family of four, with one wage earner, that's poverty.
Sorry, please clarify MCJobs. Do you mean MacJobs?
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
17,572
2
0
Quest4Less said:
what is fair about the pay some people make?
In a free and open marketplace, fair pay is based strictly on supply and demand. Escorting is probably the most free and open marketplace. Entry into the profession is open to all and there is no set price list. That is why some escorts charge $50 a pop and others charge $1,000 a pop.

At the other extreme are the monopolies (usually public sector) who have a captive customer base and prices and pay are non-responsive to supply and demand.
 

Nickelodeon

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2003
1,972
429
83
64
toronto
WhaWhaWha said:
Average wage in a bonafide job in Canada including MCJobs and commission based telemarketing jobs is $18.50 Canadian. For a family of four, with one wage earner, that's poverty.
I agree that this would be poverty. But in our imperfect capitalist system, employees would avoid these positions, and the jobs would appeal only to those who work part-time (eg. students). McDonald's would never publicly say or not say whether their jobs are supposed to feed a family of four....same for Walmart.

In boom times, it's hard to fill these positions and keep the employee because employees have better choices. I know from retail experience that there is close to 100% annual turnover in these jobs.In difficult times, employees tend to hang on to anything they can.

So I agree on your point about poverty, I disagree that these are bonafide "career" jobs. They should only be used as a transitional job until you can get something better....even in the same company
 

Jiffy Pop

Active member
May 6, 2003
720
35
28
Ottawa
Pay Scale

I do not think teachers or police or firefighters are pais to low. Teachers salaries for primary or high school are going to max out at close to 100000 with the new contract. Benefits are also good plus pension plus more weeks of vacation then almost all other jobs(I do think it is a tough job especially if you do not have the right make up for it. Besides being a gym teacher I could never do it). A good friend of mine is a police officer and he could top 100000 if he wanted to(easy overtime) but he banks a bunch of overtime so he can get more vacation and he takes many extra weeks a year. I find these salaries to be more then fair. I find that people sometimes put these union jobs in different classes and attack auto workers or people who work in mines or the garbage people. Maybe it is because they do not generally have university degrees. The thing is cops these days do have the diplomas and many firefighters also but really that is to weed out the tone of applications received. You learn your trade from the police and firefighter training and on the job.
 

someone

Active member
Jun 7, 2003
4,307
1
36
Earth
Quest4Less said:
With all the talk in various posts about unions and private sectors and 'bad times' I thought I would ask - what is fair about the pay some people make?

What is a fair wage for unskilled work - be it picking up garbage, or screwing in a nut on an assembly line?
Whatever wage rate results in the supply of a particular type of labour equalling the demand. I suppose you might argue in favour of a minimum wage as a form of charity for those with few skills and may not have the ability to acquire the skills by getting an education. Moreover, it is possible that poor parents made it difficult for them to acquire an education (people cannot pick their parents). However, generally I am willing to let the market decide.

Quest4Less said:
Is it right that people that risk their lives (police, fire, ambulance etc...) are paid so low?
Actually, in Canada both police and fire fighters are paid very well. BTW, in terms of on-the-job fatalities, statistically being a cop is actually a very safe job. I don’t know about ambulance personal.

Quest4Less said:
Should teachers - who help shape future lives be paid more?
Currently, I think they are getting a good deal.

Quest4Less said:
How is it a good thing that a sports person (pick your sport) - makes MILLIONS for playing a game???
I think it is ridiculous. However, if the fans don’t mind paying for the tickets and the advertisers think the rates for advertising on their shows are worth what the pay, it is really none of my business. It is not like my tax dollars pay their salary (OK indirectly some of my tax dollars my subsidize the facilities they us, but I doubt if it is a big item).
 

Moraff

Active member
Nov 14, 2003
3,648
0
36
S.C. Joe said:
Time to end min wages and raise the standard of living for all workers. If people earn more they could buy more goods and pay more in taxes which could go to improving the quality of life for them and others.

But if we raise min. wage then the cost of all those goods and services associated with those jobs will also go up. Plus if they raise min. wage by let's say $5/hr, everyone's going to want raises in their pay too (partly because they will need to pay more to buy things, partly because they don't want their pay to be near min. wage)

S.C. Joe said:
But sadly people want a government but don't want to pay for it, then complain how poorly its run. They want cheap goods but then don't want to work for $15 a day (which workers in those other countries we buy those goods from make).
Unfortunately so very true.
 

WhaWhaWha

Banned
Aug 17, 2001
5,989
1
0
Between a rock and a hard place
Blue5658 said:
I disagree that these are bonafide "career" jobs. They should only be used as a transitional job until you can get something better....even in the same company
I should have clarified. Bonafide by Stats Can and Employment And Immigration Canada. Not by me. Government includes them to keep the unemployment stats lower even though they dont qualify. Thats why I distinguished them.

And they dont pay living wages. Im under no illusion that they do. They pay way below the average. The average is 18.50 which is poverty for a family with one eage earner. They pay little over minimum wage for longer term employees. Which is way way below the rate of instability. They dont even offer mere survival.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,796
2,451
113
Think of low wages as a penalty for not having the foresight & common sense to obtain a skill set of education that is in demand.

Bottom line is that someone has to pay for all employees to receive high wages & that is a practical impossibility. (A concept totally foreign to unions)
Companies exist to make a profit & governments can not spend more than they bring in over the long haul

Is it perfect? Maybe not, but the alternative was tried in Russia for seventy years & last I heard that little experiment did not pan out so well
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
27,063
7,623
113
Room 112
Quest4Less said:
With all the talk in various posts about unions and private sectors and 'bad times' I thought I would ask - what is fair about the pay some people make?

What is a fair wage for unskilled work - be it picking up garbage, or screwing in a nut on an assembly line?

Is it right that people that risk their lives (police, fire, ambulance etc...) are paid so low?

Should teachers - who help shape future lives be paid more?

How is it a good thing that a sports person (pick your sport) - makes MILLIONS for playing a game???

No one ever thinks they make enough - but what is really 'enough'??
A fair wage is what the free market is willing to pay for such labour. Of course we have far from a free labour market in many industries as well as in government. I'd hazard a guess and say these individuals are overpaid 25-33% on average.
 

stang

Banned
Oct 24, 2002
4,947
0
0
S ontario
When we have better teachers and better cops then I'd agree to pay them more. Same for politicians.
 

Mencken

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
1,058
47
48
Quest4Less said:
With all the talk in various posts about unions and private sectors and 'bad times' I thought I would ask - what is fair about the pay some people make?

What is a fair wage for unskilled work - be it picking up garbage, or screwing in a nut on an assembly line?

Is it right that people that risk their lives (police, fire, ambulance etc...) are paid so low?

Should teachers - who help shape future lives be paid more?

How is it a good thing that a sports person (pick your sport) - makes MILLIONS for playing a game???

No one ever thinks they make enough - but what is really 'enough'??
Unskilled labor "fair wage" is whatever you have to pay to get them to work. Supply and demand.

Police and firemen get paid reasonably well for the education they have. 50-100 K range, higher for management.

Teachers the range is similar, principals can be over 100K by a bit (larger schools, etc).

To me "fair" should be about supply and demand plus what you as the employee bring to the job - your skills, abilities, and the work you do. If you have the skills, have ability, have a good work ethic, then you should end up paid well....unless you are in a marketplace where there are too many people like you.
 

binderman

New member
Mar 20, 2008
365
1
0
It doesn't matter what people "feel" people should get paid, the market (aka natural selection) designates value to the correct recipients.

As for teachers, good teachers are worth millions, but they will never get their fair share as long as they are in a restrictive union system.
 

spankingman

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2008
3,644
321
83
If your house is burning down do you REALLY care if the Firefighter has a diploma or KNOWS what he is doing. FF train all the time in all situations and they EARN their money!!!!!!

A proud Firefighters Dad
 

The Options Menu

Slightly Swollen Member
Sep 13, 2005
4,462
168
63
GTA
Quest4Less said:
With all the talk in various posts about unions and private sectors and 'bad times' I thought I would ask - what is fair about the pay some people make?

What is a fair wage for unskilled work - be it picking up garbage, or screwing in a nut on an assembly line?

Is it right that people that risk their lives (police, fire, ambulance etc...) are paid so low?

Should teachers - who help shape future lives be paid more?

How is it a good thing that a sports person (pick your sport) - makes MILLIONS for playing a game???

No one ever thinks they make enough - but what is really 'enough'??
Assuming you're not a market fundamentalist or someone like that, there's a basic social compact that should be observed. The basic deal is this, that if you work and honest week you deserve a decent life, and if you do that for most of your life you deserve to be able to retire in something other than poverty. If you're in a monogamous relationship and both of you engage in the above you should be able to have a couple of offspring that are able to have a fair shot at whatever future they can make.

Societies that grievously offend that basic notion tend to be more long term self destructive than not. From a policy POV, that means having a 'quality of life floor' and fostering and environment with lower inequality while minimizing the most crass forms of direct redistribution. Cultural factors can help or hinder that... In the case of Canada we tend to sit in the top quintile (1/5th) on those sorts of counts so we basically 'do OK' as it is.

The most problematic area in Toronto is the retail segment of the service sector (Which employs 12% of Canadians) and in the case of Toronto that labour is disproportionately drawn from 'new Canadians', which hides the ghastly sort of life you have when engages in that sort of work for 10/hr (especially you you have dependants). 10/hr works out to roughly 20 K a year, and Toronto's shittiest basement apartment will still cost you $7200 a year (give or take). Throw on a dependant or two and no partner and you're done. In 2005, about 19% of workers made less than 10/hr, and about half of those were over 25. That's just too low for and adult wage.

About the minimum for a single person in Toronto should be about 11.50 /hr (round abouts 24K). For dual income, you get a little bit of an economy of scale. Say, $10.25 /hr per person (abouts 43 K). If you want kid's that have futures, that'll cost you $4 /hr per kid (8 K give or take). So if you have a family of 4 you better be able to scrape up $28.50 /hr (or the better part of 60K) amongst the adults or you're going to be living in a world of hurt. The above does precious little to provision for retirement (beyond hoping your kids do OK) or somebody having bad teeth.

edit: That doesn't really say specifically what 'fair' is... 'Fair' for a floor, would be say the statistical average of the above, say round abouts $12.75 /hr, as an absolute floor (maybe moderated if you get gratuities or have the word teen in your name) in Toronto. You could probably lump Ottawa and the non-gta bits of Southern Ontario into another column, and Northern Ontario as a 3rd.
 
Last edited:
Toronto Escorts