Debate heating up on the Ontario Pension Plan. Small businesses don't like it because it is an extra cost of doing business. Many employees don't like it because they are living "hand to mouth" now and won't see the benefits for 20-40 years. (If the NDP gains power they will raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour which is another extra cost for businesses, especially small businesses.)
Ontario Pension Plan
- Thread starter SkyRider
- Start date
I'm of two minds. It is essentially forced savings, where none might exist now in jobs with no pension, so there will be less drag on welfare down the road when retirees can't pay for their living expenses (but have really great but old flat screen tv's.)
On the other hand, it is a drag on wages and profits now.
On the other hand, it is a drag on wages and profits now.
That's a good way to put it. It's the nanny state ensuring that the irresponsible put something aside for their future. Because either way, we are going pay for it....
Problem being....Business faced with a new 'fee' for the pension plan, will drive up costs, become less competitive, or move operation out of province.
then....with no jobs, people are left with no company, no work prospects, and hence, no money to put in this pension plan. A complete boondoggle.
then....with no jobs, people are left with no company, no work prospects, and hence, no money to put in this pension plan. A complete boondoggle.
I generally agree, however, in my workplace, all of us in the office have no pension, whereas over 80% of our workforce, which consist of unionized construction workers, do. So the extra cost is not prohibitive, and it might improve morale. The CPP is inadequate, and people are generally financially strapped as it is (not necessarily irresponsible TP), to put away more for retirement. So maybe it's a good thing.
Question: Hopefully, those unionized workers who have a pension, will not have to participate in the Ontario Pension Plan, or will they, since our company does not have a RPP of its own? Then it's really stupid.
Yes, but it isn't an absolute. Ie at zero ORP contribution rate, all is well with our economy, vs at non-zero contribution rate, the economy hits the skids with no jobs to speak of. The balancing act will be in the rate level, which economists and actuaries will need to weigh in on. Ie whether a combined rate of 3.8% hits the mark or sinks us.
I'm on the cusp of retirement and in decent financial shape due to long term saving and investing. I must tell you that trusting the Ontario Government with ANY of my money does not really strike me as a good idea. Not at all... They have proven over and over that they're incapable of managing anything, and I'd just as soon they not learn with my money, no matter how small an amount it might be...
So now the province which cannot even run a liquor monopoly is going to run a pension plan. Hopefully they will employ some of the same talent as they used on E-Health, and the helicopters and the gas plants and .........................I can hardly wait. Funny how the Liberals are advertising the heck out of the ORP even though we don't even details, but in the Nanny State they know what's best and they are willing to use lot's of my tax money to sell me on it.
So now we have CPP, OAS and GIS from governments.
Also available to us are RRSP's and TFSA's.
There are many pension plans and group rrsp's out there which may or may not measure up to the Nanny State's approval.
Clearly what is lacking is another program, and a bloated bureaucracy to run it. And it is such a good idea that they are going to tax employers and employees to do it.
JD
So now we have CPP, OAS and GIS from governments.
Also available to us are RRSP's and TFSA's.
There are many pension plans and group rrsp's out there which may or may not measure up to the Nanny State's approval.
Clearly what is lacking is another program, and a bloated bureaucracy to run it. And it is such a good idea that they are going to tax employers and employees to do it.
JD
If they have any brains, they will hire CPPIB to manage the investments They are doing well with the CPP funds. The federal PC's have said no to using the CPP machinery in place for collecting the money (for now) but the CPPIB might be independent enough to take on the investment management wiithout the PC's permission.
How right you are, Stoo. How can you trust a Premier who states that the economy is not her primary concern, but the Liberal agenda is. After all, with the wind energy fiasco, the Natural Gas plant cancellations and on and on and on, I certainly would not trust any bureaucrat with my hard-earned cash. Unfortunately, they will use coercive methods to extract your money.
Actually, no. The $15/hour minimum wage only applies to federally regulated industries. Small businesses would not be required to match that. The fact that you mistook the NDP's position to be a national minimum wage hike is indicative of exactly the kind of misleading hope Trudeau was accusing Mulcair of employing.
As for the Ontario Pension Plan, I'm only against it because (a) the federal government should have increased CPP instead, and (b) I don't trust the Ontario government with money. Pensions should never be dipped into to pay other bills. And that's exactly what will happen.
Thanks for the clarification. However, wouldn't provincially regulated small business be pressured to follow the federal lead (if it happens)?
You're all wasting your breath. Our monetary system is on it's last breath. Canada left the Gold standard when Trudeau handed our public bank - The Bank of Canada - over to the BIS in 1974. We're now in the final death throes of a monetary system that was bound for collapse 41 years ago. The only solution is to reinstate the Bank of Canada and it's charter. You can read about it at COMERS, The Committee for Monetary and Economic Reform here www.comer.org. Talking about raising taxes and minimum wages and who is to blame is missing the point. We have all the money we need for everything that we need to be free and prosperous. But we have to take back our monetary system and reinstate the Bank of Canada as a public Bank issuing the currency at zero or near zero interest....period, end of story. Until this is done and people educate themselves as to how and where money is created. You will simply be running around like a fart in a mitt waiting for the same calamity that is Greece today. If you wish to avoid that fate then reinstate the Bank of Canada as a public Bank. All your discussions are simply talking points of where to put the deck chairs on the Titanic.
They're still working on the specific rules but the latest is that if a company/worker already contributes at least 8% of salary, they won't be part of the new plan. I'm guessing that's any combination of employer/worker contributions.
