Olmert's peace offer

[basketcase]

A day or two ago, someone from the PA released a sketched map of Olmert's peace offer to Abbas. This inspired him to discuss the full details.

Summary - All of Gaza, West Bank with 1:1 land swaps
- divide Jerusalem with Palestinian control of Al Aqsa (Temple Mount) and the Old City as well Arab neighbourhoods.
- An international committee of Israel, the PA, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the US, overseeing the holy sites.
- A Gaza-West Bank tunnel with free access.
- No Israeli presence in the Jordan Valley
- Token amount of refugees with compensation for the rest (though Olmert said he would have increased this number if it would seal the deal).

Olmert even pushed Abbas to fly to the UN immediately and finalize the deal.

Essentially what most people see as a good offer with Israel compromising on everything except millions of the descendents of refugees. The only things the Palestinians didn't get was forcing the refugees to become Israeli (and in Hamas' and others case, the destruction of Israel)

Of course Abbas turned it down and avoided future talks.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-failed-to-accept-my-peace-offer-because-hes-no-hero/
http://www.thetower.org/exclusive-o...ng-for-abbas-to-call-will-abbas-ever-say-yes/


And that stalling continues today.
After a meeting with Secretary Kerry in Ramallah on Thursday evening, senior Palestinian officials said that conditions were not yet ripe for a renewal of negotiations with Israel.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/hague-israel-has-lost-some-of-its-support-in-britain/

 

[Aardvark154]

That is a sweetheart deal. Idiots not to take it.

 

[toguy5252]

That is a sweetheart deal. Idiots not to take it.

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. i doubt that an offer that good will ever appear again.

 

[onthebottom]

That is THE deal, but he's be lying next to Rabin if he took it.....

OTB

 

[fuji]

Well, now we know which side wants to kill the two state solution...

 

[groggy]

That is a sweetheart deal. Idiots not to take it.

Not really, it gives up on the 5 million Palestinian refugees that have been rightfully awaiting their just return for half a century.
It may have been a better deal then other offers, but is it better then waiting for the inevitable one state solution?

 

[fuji]

Not really, it gives up on the 5 million Palestinian refugees that have been rightfully awaiting their just return for half a century.
It may have been a better deal then other offers, but is it better then waiting for the inevitable one state solution?

Thanks for admitting it is the Palestinians who have rejected the two state solution, and as you say, will accept nothing short of what you consider the inevitable destruction of Israel.

I guess they will rot another sixty years until they figure out Israel isn't really going to agree to be destroyed.

 

[groggy]

Thanks for admitting it is the Palestinians who have rejected the two state solution, and as you say, will accept nothing short of what you consider the inevitable destruction of Israel.

I guess they will rot another sixty years until they figure out Israel isn't really going to agree to be destroyed.

They didn't reject the two state solution, just that offer.
And are you suggesting that Israel can only exist as a racist state, that allowing multiculturalism and equal rights would destroy it?

 

[basketcase]

Considering this offer was pretty much in line with the Arab League plan...

 

[fuji]

They didn't reject the two state solution, just that offer.
And are you suggesting that Israel can only exist as a racist state, that allowing multiculturalism and equal rights would destroy it?

Israel currently allows multiculturalism so you are just spewing bullshit propaganda here.

What Israel will not accept is the importation of millions of Palestinians to create an Arab majority and destroy the Israeli state. Even organizations sympathetic to the Palestinian cause like the United Church recognize the importance of maintaining the demographic integrity of Israel.

The Palestinians rejected the offer for only one reason: It did not include the destruction of Israel.

Fuck them. They can rot in a "no state" solution. Israel should withdraw from the West Bank the way it has withdrawn from Gaza and then just wall it off and let them rot with no state forever, if they can't accept reasonable offers like the one they turned down.

 

[groggy]

Fuck them. They can rot in a "no state" solution.

So much for your support of human rights.

 

[fuji]

So much for your support of human rights.

Nice try but if Israel withdraws it will have no legal and no moral obligations to the a Palestinians, who can then just lie in the bed they have made for themselves.

 

[groggy]

Nice try but if Israel withdraws it will have no legal and no moral obligations to the a Palestinians, who can then just lie in the bed they have made for themselves.
....
Fuck them. They can rot in a "no state" solution.

That's a big if.
Israel wouldn't withdraw because they would be too afraid of Palestinian's having open borders, which might allow them to re-arm themselves.

 

[fuji]

That's a big if.
Israel wouldn't withdraw because they would be too afraid of Palestinian's having open borders, which might allow them to re-arm themselves.

Sure, so Israel won't do that any time soon, because the Palestinians would rearm.

But if pressure ever grew to the point of Israel having to choose between unilateral withdrawal and national suicide, they would withdraw, wall off Palestine, and let the Palestinians rot in their failed state with no assistance whatsoever.

If the Palestinians subsequently used Iranian weaponry for massive attacks on Israeli cities (and we both know they would) world opinion would swiftly side with Israel, which would reoccupy the territory and recreate the present situation.

Israel would rather suffer those attacks on its cities, than suffer a one state solution that effectively means the destruction of Israel.

 

[diehard]

Nice, the problem is that Israel won't stick to it, as we've seen in the past with their settlers.
And Hamas will defend its land by preemptively firing rockets over the air, missing targets.
Israel then strikes back with surgical precision.

Repeat cycle.


:thumb:

 

[fuji]

Nice, the problem is that Israel won't stick to it, as we've seen in the past with their settlers.

So the Palestinians turn down the deal everybody else in the world thinks is the right way to end the conflict -- and you blame Israel, saying that the Palestinians are right to reject any and all peace deals because you think Israel won't stick to them.

What a load of camel shit.

 

[nottyboi]

Considering this offer was pretty much in line with the Arab League plan...

I am always skeptical of "pretty much" please do tell. Also, what about financing the new state, water rights long term economic aid package etc etc etc.. How does this amount of land compare with the original UN borders? Is it merely allowing Israel to consolidate it's gains? Not statements, all questions. This is very little data on which to decide if this is a good offer.

 

[nottyboi]

So the Palestinians turn down the deal everybody else in the world thinks is the right way to end the conflict -- and you blame Israel, saying that the Palestinians are right to reject any and all peace deals because you think Israel won't stick to them.

What a load of camel shit.

Well, they have broken many deals that the international community brokered and thought was fair.

 

[groggy]

So the Palestinians turn down the deal everybody else in the world thinks is the right way to end the conflict
What a load of camel shit.

Speaking of camel shit, lets see some proof that the 'whole world' thinks they should have taken that deal.
Would that include the UN and the 5 million Palestinian refugees still living in camps?

 

[fuji]

Well, they have broken many deals that the international community brokered and thought was fair.

First, no they haven't. Israel complies with all of the agreements it has signed on to.

Second, you are effectively asserting that there will never be any resolution to the conflict and there's no point in trying to negotiate one -- that the Palestinians can and should walk away from any peace offer, no matter how good it is.

Camel shit.