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Obama will win. It's over.

Sep 8, 2003
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Away from here.
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Hillary just got negative in the Texas debates and people howled with derision.

She looked desperate and Obama was absolutely amazing.

It's over. Mao has taken the pulse and it's all over, Obama will be the next president.

Check back in November for fun. :D
 

LancsLad

Unstable Element
Jan 15, 2004
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Mao Tse Tongue said:
Hillary just got negative in the Texas debates and people howled with derision.

She looked desperate and Obama was absolutely amazing.

It's over. Mao has taken the pulse and it's all over, Obama will be the next president.

Check back in November for fun. :D

If you are correct and the osama slamma wins then God help us all.


.
 

onthebottom

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LancsLad said:
If you are correct and the osama slamma wins then God help us all.


.
When was the last time a real liberal won the POTUS?

OTB
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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LancsLad said:
If you are correct and the osama slamma wins then God help us all.
It would be God's will, wouldn't it?

She works in mysterious ways.
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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onthebottom said:
When was the last time a real liberal won the POTUS?

OTB
You seem to be consumed with the idea of "real liberals" and "real conservatives". There aren't any anymore.
 

onthebottom

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LancsLad said:
The peanut guy with the chicklets.
I think that's right.

OTB
 

onthebottom

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Asterix said:
You seem to be consumed with the idea of "real liberals" and "real conservatives". There aren't any anymore.
Both Bubba and Bush ran to the middle (as is McCain), the last liberal POTUS was Carter, the last conservative was Reagan.

I think Obama will have a hard time maintaining his energy and I don't think his views will be that attractive to the middle - but that said he could still win it and has a better chance than Hillary.

OTB
 

Kailani

O-I-RA-N
Someone please tell Sen.Clinton that attacking does not work especially in debates! And please also mention to her that she can't just change the topic of the question and answer with whatever she wants to talk about! Desparation was so obvious it was almost as she was trying to pull the debate her way except CNN didn't play favorite at the debate and has given fair chance to both candidates. I think Obama answered questions very well although he delayed answering some of the question by up to 5 sec. He was being a complete gentleman and let her speak first most of the time and his answers were very solid and easy to understand.

I was surprised Bill didn't jump up to the stage and try to sit on that empty seat next to Obama, it would have been interesting 3 way debates:D Mr.former president has been acting so outrageous lately I would not be surprised if he has shown up on the stage one bit.
 

markvee

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I would prefer to see Mike Gravel in the 3rd seat, seeing as he is still a candidate.
 

reboot

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Jul 20, 2004
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Hamilton
Oh-Oh-Bama

In a sense, Obama is the best politician in the USA right now. He has a simple positive message of unity and change and it resonates with just about everyone other than the lunatic fringes on the political spectrum. Obama is doing so well because after decades of negativism and division, the ordinary voter is probably desparate for a vision that does not emphasize exclusion and hate.

Unfortunately, I have to admit being rather hesitant about Obama. To me, the message is too idealistic. He is offering too much hope and the expectations on him will likely be unrealistic. Obama, if he wins the election in November, will become President of the United States. He will not be king. Congress will still be there to haggle over the details, the Supreme Court will still judge and his function will still only be that of executive, not legislator or jurist. There are real limits on the power of a President and significant change takes cooperation that is unlikely to be achieved through the simple election of only one man to one post. That means there is a possibility that the high hopes that elect him will lead to extreme disappointment if -- more likely when -- those expectations are not met.

Idealism can rapidly break down into a nihilism when disappointment sets in. That would be my main concern about the election of Obama. I doubt that Clinton could cause the kind of disappointment that Obama is risking. That means her failure to deliver on promises would be more palitable than that of Obama. The real question, in my opinion, is how well Obama can spin the inevitable compromises the rest of the American political system will force upon his administration. Politics is the art of the possible.

To some degree, Obama's appeal may derive from the buzz that was generated by Powell many years ago now. There is now doubt that if Powell had been more confident and more politically shrewd, rather than being a good soldier up to the end, he would be the winning choice regardless of race, gender or party. Powell, I think, reminded people of Eisenhower. Everybody liked Ike. And Powell seemed to have that same sort of broad based appeal with the same sort of military background.

The lack of any solid military association with Obama, and Clinton too for that matter, is another serious issue. None of the current crop, including McCain, to be fair, have the sort of military experience that is desireable or, perhaps, somewhat necessary to lead a superpower wisely. In that sense, Obama is no better or worse than any of the other potentials - Democratic or Republican.

Obama is young though. That is probably where his ability to be idealistic comes from and it also means that he will not likely be very wise. Wisdom comes with age, if at all. There is no question about that and Obama is simply not old enough to have accummulated a lot of wisdom. There is no getting around that and what needs to be weighed is that his most likely opponent is almost too old and would likely be a single term caretaker president.

In the final analysis, if you care about the future of America, get on the Obama bandwagon and hope or pray or just wish for his positive and cooperative spirit to infect the rest of the political system. The spirit of our time seems to be moving toward a rather serious choice about the direction of democracy, in the USA and the rest of the world too. If the effort to rebuild the center fails there is more than a slight chance that the masses will opt for a demogogue tyrant the next time. Isn't it ironic that waiting in the wings is an Austrian immigrant hoping to achieve the presidency of his adopted great power?
 

Kailani

O-I-RA-N
how could they forget Mike?

markvee said:
I would prefer to see Mike Gravel in the 3rd seat, seeing as he is still a candidate.
Oh gees, some of the political website still has his name as an candidate, probably he never dropped out of the race, but I was checking Hawaii votes and he got less than Kucinich, which was very sad:(

Do you think Gravel would make good vp? He's definately everything Obama is not, experienced, typical Washington old timer...
 

Robio

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Who ever wins may look bad after the term is up

Unfortunately for these candidates the US is going to be in ruff shape after the Bush administration. The real problems do not really show up until after the one who caused it leaves.

I like to bug my American friends and say if Hillary wins you are a bunch of racists and it Obama wins you a bunch of sexists.

I know it is just in a name but I Obama sounds too much like Osama and his full name includes Saddam . Hummmm

Barack Obama Saddam
 

maxweber

Active member
Oct 12, 2005
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new choir director?

danmand said:
It would be God's will, wouldn't it?

She works in mysterious ways.
I can't exactly say I'm looking forward to the next few years' worth of howls and savagery from vicious fuckwads like LL if Obama wins. But, musically speaking, it will be a nice change from the murderous complacency of lying bastards like Cheney, Coulter, and Wolfowitz.

MW
 

LancsLad

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Jan 15, 2004
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maxweber said:
I can't exactly say I'm looking forward to the next few years' worth of howls and savagery from vicious fuckwads like LL if Obama wins. But, musically speaking, it will be a nice change from the murderous complacency of lying bastards like Cheney, Coulter, and Wolfowitz.

MW


Speaking as a viscious fuckwad ( and thank you very much for noticing) I'm wondering why you care because I thought you had me on ignore.

Admit it you little weenie, you do love me and you care very much what I have to say. its so sweet :)
 

sailorsix

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Sep 25, 2006
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Whichever party wins they are going to find it pretty tough to deliver on promises.

Op-Ed Columnist
Don’t Rerun That ’70s Show
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Will the next president be the second coming of Jimmy Carter? Given Thursday’s economic headlines, full of dire warnings about the return of 1970s-style stagflation, you might think so.

Realistically, though, the parallels between the problems facing the U.S. economy now and those of the late-1970s aren’t that strong. That’s the good news.

The bad news is that the economy probably will look similar to, but worse than, the economy that undid the first President Bush. And it’s all too easy to see how the next president could suffer a political fate resembling that of both the elder Mr. Bush and Mr. Carter.

Let’s talk first about the Carter-era economy.

Jimmy Carter’s overall economic record was much better than most people realize — the average economic growth rate under his administration was 3.4 percent per year, slightly higher than the growth rate under Ronald Reagan and far better than growth under either Bush.

Reagan famously asked Americans whether they were better off than they had been four years ago; the answer, actually, was yes — most families had higher real income in 1980 than they did in 1976.

But the good economic news came in the Carter administration’s early years, while its final year was marked by rising unemployment and soaring inflation, largely caused by a surge in oil prices.

And once again we have a weakening economy coupled with rising inflation, again thanks in large part to a surge in oil prices.

That said, I don’t believe we’re really facing anything comparable to 1970s stagflation. For one thing, we’re less dependent on oil: America has more than twice the real G.D.P. it had in 1979, but consumes only slightly more oil. For another, there’s no sign of the wage-price spiral that once drove inflation into double digits — in fact, wage growth has been declining even as inflation rises.

What’s much more likely is that we’ll have an economy like that of the early 1990s, only worse.

The first President Bush presided over the 1990-1991 recession. But his real problem came during the alleged recovery, which was hobbled by financial problems at many banks, which had been badly damaged by the collapse of the late-1980s real estate bubble, and by sluggish consumer spending, held down by high levels of household debt.

As a result, the unemployment rate just kept rising, not reaching its peak of 7.8 percent until June 1992.

If all this sounds familiar, it should. Many economists have pointed out the parallels between the current situation and the early 1990s: another real estate bubble, subprime playing more or less the same role formerly played by bad loans by savings and loan institutions, financial trouble all around.

The difference is that the problems look a lot worse this time: a much bigger bubble, more financial distress, deeper consumer indebtedness — and sky-high oil prices added to the mix. So if history is any guide, we should be looking at an extended period of economic weakness, probably extending well into 2010, and quite possibly even longer.

Can the next president do anything to avoid that outcome? In terms of straight economics, the answer is a clear yes.

To this day, it’s not clear what Mr. Carter could have done differently: stagflation is a problem with no good solutions. But weak spending is a treatable condition. A serious fiscal stimulus plan — one that emphasized public investment and aid to Americans in economic distress rather than across-the-board tax rebates, which many people won’t spend — could do a lot to ease the country’s economic pain.

Politically, however, it’s hard to see this happening.

If the next president is a Republican, he will be captive to the doctrine that tax cuts are the answer to all problems, and therefore won’t seek an effective response to the economy’s troubles.

And even if the next president is a Democrat, any serious stimulus plan would face intense, ideologically motivated opposition in Congress. Will the next president be prepared to fight for an effective plan? Or will we end up with a compromise like the one Congressional Democrats agreed to this year, legislation that assuages conservative objections at the cost of undermining the plan’s effectiveness?

Until recently, I thought the biggest political struggle facing the next president was likely to be over health care reform. But right now it looks as if the first thing on the next administration’s plate will have to be dealing with a weak economy.

And if effective action isn’t forthcoming, the next president will suffer the fate of Jimmy Carter, who began his administration with words of uplift — “Let us create together a new national spirit of unity and trust” — and ended up delivering America into the hands of the hard right.
 

markvee

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Mar 18, 2003
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Kailani said:
typical Washington old timer...
There's nothing typical about Gravel. He staged a one-man fillibuster against the draft (If this was typical, he would not have been alone). He was not the first politician approached to put the Pentagon Papers on the public record, but he is the one that agreed to do it.

The closest thing to Gravel today is:
Dennis Kucinich with his attempt to impeach Dick Cheney
and
Ron Paul with his frequent lone dissenting vote. He voted against giving a medal to Rosa Parks, but instead offered his own money for the medal, on the principle that the politicians, not the taxpayers, should pay for the medal.

Also, Mike Gravel's National Initiative is unique among the candidates. He is proposing giving the people the power to submit laws directly without going through an elected representative.

Finally, I loved how Gravel called out his party as a bunch of useless hypocrites at the debates. My favourites:

"Where do you think NAFTA came from? The trinity? It came from a Democratic administration."

"This is fantasy land. We’re talking about ending the war. My god, we’re just starting a war right today. There was a vote in the Senate today. Joe Lieberman, who authored the Iraq resolution, has authored another resolution, and it is essentially a fig leaf to let George Bush go to war with Iran. And I want to congratulate Biden for voting against it, Dodd for voting against it, and I’m ashamed of you, Hillary, for voting for it. You’re not going to get another shot at this, because what’s happened, if this war ensues, we invade, and they’re looking for an excuse to do it. And Obama was not even there to vote."

I wish Gravel was still in the debates, so that he could ask Hillary Clinton about skipping the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) vote.
 
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