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NYTimes editiorial on Iraq: Sobering

TOVisitor

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Hard-hitting and sober. Short and sweet. Chilling.

The NY Times has been behind Bush since Day One. This is big.

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/25/opinion/25sat1.html?

Three Things About Iraq
Published: June 25, 2005


To have the sober conversation about the war in Iraq that America badly needs, it is vital to acknowledge three facts:

The war has nothing to do with Sept. 11.
Saddam Hussein was a sworn enemy of Washington, but there was no Iraq-Qaeda axis, no connection between Saddam Hussein and the terrorist attacks on the United States. Yet the president and his supporters continue to duck behind 9/11 whenever they feel pressure about what is happening in Iraq. The most cynical recent example was Karl Rove's absurd and offensive declaration this week that conservatives and liberals had different reactions to 9/11. Let's be clear: Americans of every political stripe were united in their outrage and grief, united in their determination to punish those who plotted the mass murder and united behind the war in Afghanistan, which was an assault on terrorists. Trying to pretend otherwise is the surest recipe for turning political dialogue into meaningless squabbling.

The war has not made the world, or this nation, safer from terrorism.
The breeding grounds for terrorists used to be Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia; now Iraq has become one. Of all the justifications for invading Iraq that the administration juggled in the beginning, the only one that has held up over time is the desire to create a democratic nation that could help stabilize the Middle East. Any sensible discussion of what to do next has to begin by acknowledging that. The surest way to make sure that conversation does not happen is for the administration to continue pasting the "soft on terror" label on those who want to talk about the war.

If the war is going according to plan, someone needs to rethink the plan.
Progress has been measurable on the political front. But even staunch supporters of the war, like the Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, told Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at a hearing this week that President Bush was losing public support because the military effort was not keeping pace. A top general said this week that the insurgency was growing. The frequency of attacks is steady, or rising a bit, while the repulsive tactic of suicide bombings has made them more deadly.

If things are going to be turned around, there has to be an honest discussion about what is happening. But Mr. Rumsfeld was not interested. Sneering at his Democratic questioners, he insisted everything was on track and claimed "dozens of trained battalions are capable of conducting anti-insurgent operations" with American support. That would be great news if it were true. Gen. George Casey, the commander in Iraq, was more honest, saying he hoped there would be "a good number of units" capable of doing that "before the end of this year."

Americans cannot judge for themselves because the administration has decided to make the information secret. Senator John McCain spoke for us when he expressed his disbelief at this news. "I think the American people need to know," he said. "They are the ones who are paying for this conflict."
 

TOVisitor

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In addition, Chuck Hagel spoke to Vets in Nebraska

This is available at Omaha.com

Hagel sounds alarm over Iraq
BY JAKE THOMPSON
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER


GRAND ISLAND, Neb. - More than 200 Nebraska American Legion members, who have seen war and conflict themselves, fell quiet here Saturday as Sen. Chuck Hagel bluntly explained why he believes that the United States is losing the war in Iraq.

Sen. Chuck Hagel addresses more than 200 Nebraska American Legion members in Grand Island on Saturday.

It took 20 minutes, but it boiled down to this:

The Bush team sent in too few troops to fight the war leading to today's chaos and rising deaths of Americans and Iraqis. Terrorists are "pouring in" to Iraq.

Basic living standards are worse than a year ago in Iraq. Civil war is perilously close to erupting there. Allies aren't helping much. The American public is losing its trust in President Bush's handling of the conflict.

And Hagel's deep fear is that it will all plunge into another Vietnam debacle, prompting Congress to force another abrupt pullout as it did in 1975.


"What we don't want to happen is for this to end up another Vietnam," Hagel told the legionnaires, "because the consequences would be catastrophic."

It would be far worse than Vietnam, says Hagel, a twice-wounded veteran of that conflict, which killed 58,000 Americans.
 

Mcluhan

New member
American in a sea change

The crew of Battle Ship America is poised to mutiny...I and many other who watch the news closely on a daily basis have felt the ground swell over the past 2 weeks...the NY Times just made it official. Good news work TOV!

The President and his men are FINALLY on the carpet! Watch the rats scury down the anchor chain over the next week.

Impeach the bastard. The sooner the better.
 

TOVisitor

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I would rather be silent and not have to find and read this stuff, than to find it.

I do not rejoice at all at these turns of events. The world is a far less safe place than before the Iraq war started. I have been to several countries since then, and have spoken with people who are completely stunned at the hubris, arrogance, and complete miscalculations of the Shrub admin.

I am just plain embarrassed.
 

Mcluhan

New member
TOVisitor said:
I would rather be silent and not have to find and read this stuff, than to find it.

I do not rejoice at all at these turns of events. The world is a far less safe place than before the Iraq war started. I have been to several countries since then, and have spoken with people who are completely stunned at the hubris, arrogance, and complete miscalculations of the Shrub admin.

I am just plain embarrassed.
I understand. I am on the last page of my passport, with over 120 stamps. This is an advantage we have - perspective. Certain people here who talk about the "Arab Problem" should maybe get up of the ass and go there. Then I would be more inclined to listen. Bush included.
 

TOVisitor

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Mcluhan said:
I understand. I am on the last page of my passport, with over 120 stamps. This is an advantage we have - perspective. Certain people here who talk about the "Arab Problem" should maybe get up of the ass and go there. Then I would be more inclined to listen. Bush included.
I just packed in my passport and got a new one, rather than getting new pages stitched in.

I go to international meetings where over 1,000 people from over 100 nations go, and I get stopped constantly and asked questions. The "I didn't vote for him stuff" only goes so far ...
 
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