Steeles Royal

New DNA map of the UK shows that old Dark Ages tribal divisions never went away!

mandrill

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Who do you think you are? An international team used DNA samples collected from more than 2,000 people to create the first fine-scale genetic map of the British Isles.

Their findings, published in Nature, show that prior to the mass migrations of the 20th century there was a striking pattern of rich but subtle genetic variation across the UK, with distinct groups of genetically similar individuals clustered together geographically.
Population movements over 10,000 years

By comparing this information with DNA samples from over 6,000 Europeans, the team was also able to identify clear traces of the population movements into the UK over the past 10,000 years. Their work confirmed, and in many cases shed further light on, known historical migration patterns.
Main discoveries

The Orkney population emerged as the most genetically distinct, with 25% of DNA coming from Norwegian ancestors, and shows clearly that the Norse Viking invasion (9th century) did not simply replace the indigenous population. However, there is no obvious genetic signature of the Danish Vikings, who controlled large parts of England (“The Danelaw”) from the 9th century.

One of the most interesting discoveries was that there is not a single “Celtic” genetic group. In fact the Celtic parts of the UK (Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Cornwall) are among the most different from each other genetically. For example, the Cornish are much more similar genetically to other English groups than they are to the Welsh or the Scots. The results also showed that there are separate genetic groups in Cornwall and Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.

The majority of eastern, central and southern England is made up of a single, relatively homogeneous, genetic group with a significant DNA contribution from Anglo-Saxon migrations (10-40% of total ancestry). This settles a historical controversy in showing that the Anglo-Saxons intermarried with, rather than replaced, the existing populations.

The Welsh appear more similar to the earliest settlers of Britain after the last ice age than do other people in the UK. However, the analyses suggest there was a substantial migration across the channel after the original post-ice-age settlers, but before Roman times. DNA from these migrants spread across England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, but had little impact in Wales. There is also genetic evidence of the effect of the Landsker line – the boundary between English-speaking people in south-west Pembrokeshire (sometimes known as “Little England beyond Wales”) and the Welsh speakers in the rest of Wales, which persisted for almost a millennium.

Many of the genetic clusters show similar locations to the tribal groupings and kingdoms around the end of the 6th century, after the settlement of the Anglo-Saxons, suggesting these tribes and kingdoms may have maintained a regional identity for many centuries.

People of the British Isles

The Wellcome Trust-funded People of the British Isles study analysed the DNA of 2,039 people from rural areas of the UK, whose four grandparents were all born within 80km of each other. Because a quarter of our genome comes from each of our grandparents, the researchers were effectively sampling DNA from these ancestors, allowing a snapshot of UK genetics in the late 19th Century. They also analysed data from 6,209 individuals from 10 (modern) European countries.

To uncover the extremely subtle genetic differences among these individuals the researchers used cutting-edge statistical techniques, developed by four of the team members. They applied these methods, called fineSTRUCTURE and GLOBETROTTER, to analyse DNA differences at over 500,000 positions within the genome. They then separated the samples into genetically similar individuals, without knowing where in the UK the samples came from. By plotting each person onto a map of the British Isles, using the centre point of their grandparents’ birth places, they were able to see how this distribution correlated with their genetic groupings.

The researchers were then able to “zoom in” to examine the genetic patterns in the UK at levels of increasing resolution. At the broadest scale, the population in Orkney (islands to the north of Scotland) emerged as the most genetically distinct. At the next level, Wales forms a distinct genetic group, followed by a further division between north and south Wales. Then the north of England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland collectively separate from southern England, before Cornwall forms a separate cluster. Scotland and Northern Ireland then separate from northern England. The study eventually focused at the level where the UK was divided into 17 genetically distinct clusters of people.


http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index...t-fine-scale-genetic-map-of-the-british-isles

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...-tribal-kingdoms-Oxford-University-finds.html
 

TheDr

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Interesting findings, unfortunately a sample of 2000 from a country with a population of 60+ million is not really a true representative set even in rural areas. Especially considering the people most likely to respond to the appeal for people to take part would be those under the impression their family has been in the area for generations.

Still it would be great to see this as a start of a wider survey with a bigger sample set and see if the findings hold up.
 

oldjones

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Interesting findings, unfortunately a sample of 2000 from a country with a population of 60+ million is not really a true representative set even in rural areas. Especially considering the people most likely to respond to the appeal for people to take part would be those under the impression their family has been in the area for generations.

Still it would be great to see this as a start of a wider survey with a bigger sample set and see if the findings hold up.
But it was precisely those whose "…family ha[d] been in the area for generations." that this study was investigating. Since they were focussed on the British population "…prior to the mass migrations of the 20th century", they were actually looking at an overall population around 30 million (38 million including Ireland) which makes the statistical sample comparable to those we commonly rely on—±3% 19 times out of 20—for polling.
 

Aardvark154

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From the Telegraph article on the study:

"there is a large area in southern and central England with a shared genetic heritage which coincides with the boundaries of Anglo-Saxon England. Likewise, separate genetic groups can be found in areas of North and South Wales corresponding to the ancient kingdoms of Gwynedd and Dyfed.

In the North, specific groups were found in the North East, tallying with the area of Bernicia which was colonised by the Angles from Southern Denmark. And, intriguingly, a small genetic cluster was spotted in the West Riding of Yorkshire, which coincides with the former small kingdom of Elmet, one of the last strongholds of the ancient Britons."

Yet at the same time they wrote: "there is no obvious genetic signature of the Danish Vikings, who controlled large parts of England (“The Danelaw”) from the 9th century." This seems curious since commercial genetic ancestry tests such as "Ancestry DNA" and "23andme" will show people from the Yorkshire/Lincolnshire portion of the Danelaw having Scandinavian ancestry which fits with the first statement but not the second.

As broader statements they claim to have found the the answer to the question of whether the Romans, Vikings and Anglo-Saxons interbred with the native Britions or wiped out communities.

"The team found that people in central and southern England have a significant DNA contribution from the Anglo-Saxons showing that the invaders intermarried with, rather than replaced, the existing population. . . .

Similarly the Saxons in Germany have contributed DNA to some of the English groups but not to some of the others. We can see not only the differences in the UK but the reasons for those differences in terms of population movements."

They stated that besides there being "no genetic signature from the Danish Vikings even though they controlled large parts of England" that there was little Roman DNA in the British genetic make-up. I wonder whether the later statement is like the Angles and Danes statement in that presumably most "Romans" coming to Britain did not come from Italy but rather from Roman Provinces closer at hand such as Gaul and Belgica.
 

shogun89

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If the liberals keep it up, in a couple hundred years 50000 years of natural evolution will be wiped out and the UK will all be replaced with Asian, African, and middle eastern genes instead.
 

mandrill

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Aardy, I have always felt that the Romans administered and garrisoned Britain, but did not colonize it in the same way they colonized France and Spain. This is why Welsh survives today as a language, while Celtic dialects in France and Spain died out - apart from Breton which has its own story.
 

fuji

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If the liberals keep it up, in a couple hundred years 50000 years of natural evolution will be wiped out and the UK will all be replaced with Asian, African, and middle eastern genes instead.
In time we will all be thoroughly mixed. It's a good thing.
 

shogun89

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In time we will all be thoroughly mixed. It's a good thing.
Actually only white countries will be mixed. The rest of the world will be just as before. That's genocide. Genocide is not a good thing.
 

oldjones

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If the liberals keep it up, in a couple hundred years 50000 years of natural evolution will be wiped out and the UK will all be replaced with Asian, African, and middle eastern genes instead.
What a good idea! A population with all the genes of the species, not just with a few limited breeds. Which, after all, is to say with a few limited inbreds.
 
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shogun89

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What a good idea! A population with all the genes of the species, not just a few limited breeds. Which, after all, is to say a few limited inbreds.
So do China, Japan, Korea, India, all of Africa, and Persia have a population full of "inbred cousin fuckers" too? Their diversity is basically 0. Do you think any of them will actually be stupid enough to adopt the radical liberalism of the west? After we are all gone.

Nope, they'll probably have a good laugh at the white liberals for hitting the self destruct button though.
 

basketcase

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If the liberals keep it up, in a couple hundred years 50000 years of natural evolution will be wiped out and the UK will all be replaced with Asian, African, and middle eastern genes instead.
Genetic diversity is a good thing for strength of a species. Whiny racial separatists are not.


p.s. Pretty funny that a guy worried about the 'extinction of the white race' has a japanese handle.
 

fuji

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Actually only white countries will be mixed. The rest of the world will be just as before. That's genocide. Genocide is not a good thing.
Untrue, there are large immigrant populations in every country. Free countries like Canada are obviously on the leading edge, which again is a good thing.

But there are large immigrant populations in every major city in the world.

And intermarriage isn't genocide that is the dumbest thing ever posted on terb, and smacks of blatant racism. Do you belong to the KKK or something? Going to demand segregated schools next?
 

Aardvark154

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Genetic diversity is a good thing for strength of a species. Whiny racial separatists are not.


p.s. Pretty funny that a guy worried about the 'extinction of the white race' has a japanese handle.
Of course that the Japanese are right at the top of the list of the most Racist/Ethnicist people in the world. . . . . .
 

shogun89

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Genetic diversity is a good thing for strength of a species. Whiny racial separatists are not.


p.s. Pretty funny that a guy worried about the 'extinction of the white race' has a japanese handle.
I've always liked Asian culture, and in the future hope that multiculturalism does not ruin that also. Right now Multiculturasim is targeting western culture so that's what I focus on.

It's funny though, that of all my Indian and Asian friends I talk to who are hardcore liberal supporters in Canada and Europe, and want more diversity and immigration to these areas, None of them want it in their ancestral homelands.
 

shogun89

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Untrue, there are large immigrant populations in every country. Free countries like Canada are obviously on the leading edge, which again is a good thing.

But there are large immigrant populations in every major city in the world.

And intermarriage isn't genocide that is the dumbest thing ever posted on terb, and smacks of blatant racism. Do you belong to the KKK or something? Going to demand segregated schools next?
Genocide does not have to be violent. When peoole say, I hope we all intermarry and in the future all of Europe will become a brownish yellow hue, that is genocide. Gradual genocide. Only a dumb fuck would think otherwise.
 

oldjones

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So do China, Japan, Korea, India, all of Africa, and Persia have a population full of "inbred cousin fuckers" too? Their diversity is basically 0. Do you think any of them will actually be stupid enough to adopt the radical liberalism of the west? After we are all gone.

Nope, they'll probably have a good laugh at the white liberals for hitting the self destruct button though.
Unless you have the secret of immortality you'll be long gone well before the last pur laine paleface dies. So no downside for you. What you have failed to do is point out the downside of that passing for 'our' breed. Or the Human Race.

Heck we can't even survive a bit of sun without a sophisticated chemical industry selling us protection. Thanks to our failure to adequately control that very industry and what we rich capitalist* whites did to the ozone layer with it. Seems to me those other breeds of human you mentioned for their superior qualities will be noting all that sorta crap we left in the air and water long after they've forgotten passing political fixations llke your 'liberal' thing.
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* I wrote 'conservative' because of your fascination with liberals, but real 'conservatives' would have done everything they could to conserve the environment and all that live in it, not fight those trying to save it. 'Profiteers' or 'capitalists' then. On the topic of extinct breeds within a species, just how meagre and empty of purpose is the dog world without the 44 extinct breeds (one of them Canadian by annexation) that Wikipedia lists? Never mind the hundreds of actual species large and small we humans—mostly for profit—have exterminated accidentally or on purpose.

Is your whiteness that special? Or desirable?
 

fuji

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Genocide does not have to be violent. When peoole say, I hope we all intermarry and in the future all of Europe will become a brownish yellow hue, that is genocide. Gradual genocide. Only a dumb fuck would think otherwise.
No, isn't, it is hysterical KKK nonsense to claim intermarriage is genocide.
 

oldjones

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Dreamer.

While we wait, and somewhat related to the topic of ancient Britain, invading tribes—and even extinctions (of languages and peoples, albeit of unknown colour*) allow me to recommend Tom Howell's hilarious The Rude Story of English, (McClelland&Stewart/Random House, Toronto 2013) Who'd have imagined the Great Vowel Shift and the history and mixing of Anglish, Saxon and Danish could be funny as well as essential to knowing what this wee specialty breed is about.
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*I'm sure you're aware that such pictures as we have merely leave skin blank, and that actual whiteness of those ancients is not part of, nor proven in the record, which does however contain more than one reference to the BRitish being a fearsome blue colour.
 
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