Needle exchange in prison?!?!?!

[Quest4Less]

So now the bleeding hearts are saying we should provide new "clean" needles to prisoners. WTF are these assholes thinking? Instead of stopping the drug use in prisons they are not only allowing it, but are saying it's o.k. and are going to help it continue?!?!?!?!? Obviously these people are on some heavy drugs themselves and have no clue at all. Not only are they letting prisoners use drugs, but they are putting weapons in their hands. These idiots seriously need to get a clue.


My daily rant......

 

[The Baroness]

In the federal penitentiaries, they already provide bleach( to clean needles) and condoms.

 

[langeweile]

We should give out free and clean drugs too, while we at it.
I believe we should legalize all drugs anyway, with one disclaimer. Once you get sick as a result from doing drugs, healthcare will not be available for free anymore. If you can't afford it...well it was your choice in the first place/

 

[papasmerf]

Quest

come on these people have rights. They can live free to do as they please. The fact they are in prision is societies fault and we have the ogligation to make sure they have all their needs met. So if it means providing quality drugs and clean needles, so be it. After all it is our fault they are there.



(just practicing comformity to the liberal ideals)

 

[Drunken Master]

These comments are rather typical of the more hypocritical end of the conservative spectrum.

Many jails in both Canada and the US are horribly understaffed, and what staff there is is ludicrously underpayed. As a result drugs are easier to get in prison than they are on the outside. Not providing clean needles means, essentially, a death sentence for every just about every drug user in prison. Providing clean needles is actually a cost-saving measure, and a piss-poor irresponsible one at that - but since anytime anyone wants to spend money on the corrections system the conservatives cry bloody murder - pardon the pun - any measures that would actually he drug adicts in prison go down the tubes.

I know, I know - every drug user should just snap their fingers and quit and those who don't deserve to die. Oh, wait, that's right, everyone who ends up in jail for any reason deserves to die.

 

[papasmerf]

These comments are rather typical of the more hypocritical end of the conservative spectrum.

Many jails in both Canada and the US are horribly understaffed, and what staff there is is ludicrously underpayed. As a result drugs are easier to get in prison than they are on the outside. Not providing clean needles means, essentially, a death sentence for every just about every drug user in prison. Providing clean needles is actually a cost-saving measure, and a piss-poor irresponsible one at that - but since anytime anyone wants to spend money on the corrections system the conservatives cry bloody murder - pardon the pun - any measures that would actually he drug adicts in prison go down the tubes.

I know, I know - every drug user should just snap their fingers and quit and those who don't deserve to die. Oh, wait, that's right, everyone who ends up in jail for any reason deserves to die.

Wow, kinda harsh saying they deserve to die.

 

[The Shake]

Not providing clean needles means, essentially, a death sentence for every just about every drug user in prison. .

And putting even more needles in the hands of violent inmates could mean death sentences for the men and women who have to guard them.

A patently stupid idea.

 

[Drunken Master]

And putting even more needles in the hands of violent inmates could mean death sentences for the men and women who have to guard them.

A patently stupid idea.

You appear to be under the impression that the needles are dumped in a big pile on the floor and the inmates are allowed as many as they can carry.

This is, of course, not the case. Clean needles are used under supervision - otherwise, the needles wouldn't stay clean for very long.

And yes, some of these needles will inevitably be stolen and end up in the general population - as will forks, spoons, fingernails and anything else that can sharpened into a shiv. The only way to ensure complete safety in a prison is to put every prisoner in a straight-jacket.

I will assume this was a simple lapse of concentration from the normally level-headed Shake.

 

[papasmerf]

This is, of course, not the case. Clean needles are used under supervision - otherwise, the needles wouldn't stay clean for very long.

.

Yea

ok they can watch the nedles but have no idea about the drugs, who has them or how to stop them

Ok
yea

 

[Drunken Master]

Yea

ok they can watch the nedles but have no idea about the drugs, who has them or how to stop them

Ok
yea

Again, drugs are everywhere inside prison. I'm sure everyone is well aware who is supplying - but let's say they bust a few of these people, another two come into replace him. I know you guys have difficulties with the concept of "systemic" problems, but sorry to say they do in facT exist and they exist something fierce in the corrections system.

Now, don't get me wrong - if you read my first post I said I think the needle-exchange is - and I'll quote myself - a

piss-poor irresponsible

system - but again, until jails are properly funded - which would be the responsible thing - we have a choice between this and doing nothing, neither of which are really acceptable.

 

[papasmerf]

would you object to prisions going back to work farms??
where they inmate work to grow the food and cattle they eat?

 

[Drunken Master]

"That dirt's in the warden's hole, Luke. You better get it out."
"Yes, boss"
"What's all that dirt doin' in the yard, Luke?"
"I dunno, boss"
"Well, you better get it back in the hole"
"Yes, boss"
"How come you put all that dirt in the warden's hole, Luke?"
"I-I can't remember boss."
"You better get it out, then"

Sure, why not.

 

[The Baroness]

The reality of the situation is inmates have access to drugs and are going to use them. Another reality is HIV and Hep C is spread in this manner. Yet another reality is that you and I pay for their health care.
While I do not agree with providing needles, I do agree with providing bleach to clean the needles if they manage to get them.
Its called damage control. The medication costs for even one HIV patient a year are quite high....I dont need to pay anymore taxes thank you.

 

[Sasha Jones]

This ia absolute horse crap!!!
You all have good points about why it should be allowed but come on... the reality is that DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL. Period.

One person says "until jails are properly funded" .......
well how about taking the money they are spending on the "clean needle program" and putting it toward more staff? Golly no, that would make too much sense.

If you are in jail, you shouldn't be able to get your hands on drugs period, I know that is not a reality but that is the way it should be. They should be taking more time to tighten up the borders of the jails rather than sitting on their arse giving out free needles.

So you are telling me that even though drugs are illegal, and these people are in jail, they are going to give them clean needles, plus supervise thier use, and not say a word about the drugs they are putting into them right in front of them? Even though it is illegal?
What kind of crap is that?

That is like saying I'm gonna sit down in the lobby of the police station and cook one up. We all know how far that would get me.
About as far as the nearest jail.
At least there I could do it without a hassle :screwy:

 

[Drunken Master]

One person says "until jails are properly funded" .......
well how about taking the money they are spending on the "clean needle program" and putting it toward more staff? Golly no, that would make too much sense.

Again, if you read my post, this was exactly my point. The clean needle program exists because it doesn't cost as much money as it would to really improve the prison system. My point is, it makes absolutely no sense to criticize an imperfect program that exists only because we've decided not to impliment programs that actually might work. It's like being critical of a band-aid for not holding together a poorly-built dam. The band-aid can't help it if it's a crappy solution - and it's better than nothing.

 

[The Shake]

You appear to be under the impression that the needles are dumped in a big pile on the floor and the inmates are allowed as many as they can carry.

This is, of course, not the case. Clean needles are used under supervision - otherwise, the needles wouldn't stay clean for very long.

And yes, some of these needles will inevitably be stolen and end up in the general population - as will forks, spoons, fingernails and anything else that can sharpened into a shiv. The only way to ensure complete safety in a prison is to put every prisoner in a straight-jacket.

There's a difference between ensuring complete safety (which you can't) and making the situation more dangerous (which this does). Weapons in prison are already a problem - it simply doesn't make sense to add more potential weapons to the equation. We owe our prison guards more than that.

I believe in harm reduction measures, and in needle exchanges outside of prison populations, but not this idea. As Miranda has pointed out, providing bleach so that needles can be cleaned is a more reasonable approach.

 

[Quest4Less]

"That dirt's in the warden's hole, Luke. You better get it out."
"Yes, boss"
"What's all that dirt doin' in the yard, Luke?"
"I dunno, boss"
"Well, you better get it back in the hole"
"Yes, boss"
"How come you put all that dirt in the warden's hole, Luke?"
"I-I can't remember boss."
"You better get it out, then"

Sure, why not.

If you take the brutality (sp?) and the sadism out of that then what is wrong with making prisoners work for their own keep?

 

[Quest4Less]

Amnesia?

What most bleeding hearts seem to forget is that prison is supposed to PUNISH people for their wrong doings.

Not only should we not let prisoners use drugs, but we should be taking away their cable t.v., weight training (making bad asses even worse asses), and every single one of their other "perks". Prison should be a time of horrible suffering - making it EXTREMELY undesireable to return. Too many "cons" see prison as no big deal, or "easy time" & are therefore not afraid of commiting the crime cause they figure they can "do the time".

Oh ya, and they should NOT be allowed to vote either - they choose to live outside society, they should not benefit from it until their debt is paid.

 

[Drunken Master]

There's a difference between ensuring complete safety (which you can't) and making the situation more dangerous (which this does). Weapons in prison are already a problem - it simply doesn't make sense to add more potential weapons to the equation. We owe our prison guards more than that.

I believe in harm reduction measures, and in needle exchanges outside of prison populations, but not this idea. As Miranda has pointed out, providing bleach so that needles can be cleaned is a more reasonable approach.

Shake - ever gotten any bleach in your eyes? Stuff hurts like hell. Get enough of it together and you could blind someone.

To make the point again - the needle exchange, bleach or whatever stop-gap solution we apply are tacit acknowledgements that something is seriously wrong within the system, and that the real political will does not exist to fix it.

Quest4Less - you suggest that work programs are fine if the brutality is taken out - I agree with you - and then in your next post suggest that prison "should be a time of horrible suffering." Why don't we just bring back routine tortue? Or the Gulag? I'll tell you why, if the repugnance of such an approach isn't enough for you (as it doesn't appear to be): many prisons in the US have gone with the "no perks" approach, and levels of recitivism have not dropped noticably as a result.

 

[Quest4Less]

Quest4Less - you suggest that work programs are fine if the brutality is taken out - I agree with you - and then in your next post suggest that prison "should be a time of horrible suffering." Why don't we just bring back routine tortue? Or the Gulag?

I never suggested torture. What I am suggesting is no fun/pleasure/enjoyment. I'm suggesting bread & water for meals. That sort of thing. That would be horrible suffering to me.